S-10 or SD-10

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 2 Mar 2012 11:34 am

Hi to all - This is my first post to this forum. I began playing steel some 35 years ago on a Market-rite kit steel. I had it for about a year before acquiring an MSA D-10. I don't think that I've even played a single neck steel since getting the MSA.

For the last 15 years or so, I've worked primarily as a guitarist with an occasional gig on steel. Recently my steel addiction has returned and I've been spending time wood shedding in the hope of picking up where I left off. I'm close to being able to put myself out for gigs without irritating anyone or making a fool of myself.

My current guitar is a Mullen D-10 that I purchased in 1985. It weighs a lot. I'm thinking that since I have little call (and ability) to play on the C6 neck, that I can reduce weight with a single neck guitar. An SD-10 would likely be more comfortable than an S-10, but I'm wondering about pros and cons between the 2 bodies, especially after playing a D-10 for so long. I'd appreciate any input on this.

I'm thinking GFI Ultra but also am wondering about the Simmons Genesis which looks like an incredible deal.

Thanks, BJ

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 2 Mar 2012 11:42 am

Howard,
It's always personal preference. If you're looking to buy a used guitar, you'll most likely find more SD10's to choose from. They typically have better resale value if you decide later to sell it. My personal preference is the SD10 because of comfort. I just felt like I was falling off of the back of the guitar when playing an S10. Time may have cured that, but the SD10 became my weapon of choice.

Bernie Straub · Post by **Bernie Straub** » 2 Mar 2012 12:13 pm

Howard, I did exactly what you propose about a year ago. I went from d-10 to the GFI Ultra S-10. I absolutely love it. I have been playing 38 years and it easily meets all of my psg needs. Opinions will differ on this, but I smile every time I lift it and its 26 lbs into the case. Not a bad price, either. Don't think of it as a student model or anything other than a professional guitar. With 3 floors and 4 knees it is all I need or want.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 2 Mar 2012 12:16 pm

"It's always personal preference."

Yes it is! I'm 6'2". My seat is the correct height. My forearm is virtually straight to my right hand. No bent wrist. I'd have to bend my wrist, and hunch over to the right for a pad to be of any use to me. I just don't need a pad. Don't like reaching across unused territory either. I'm very comfortable. So,,, S-10 or 12 for me. And,,, they're quite a bit lighter than an SD-10/12. Less wood, less aluminum, smaller, lighter, case.

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 2 Mar 2012 3:45 pm

SD10 All The Way. Sonny.

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 2 Mar 2012 3:59 pm

I have both a GFI Ultra S-10 and a GFI Ultra SD-10 (and a Rains SD-10).

The S-10 is fine, but a little light - the GFI uses a lot of aluminum. Easy to carry....
The SD-10 just feels more solid...the action is the same, of course, and it is only about 4 lbs heavier, maybe it is the wider spread on the legs....

I use them for practice and like them both a lot....I'm considering using the GFI SD-10 as my gig steel instead of the Rains, but haven't gotten quite there yet...the Rains is 66lbs in the case, nearly double the GFI, but just feels even more solid...

and I added a left knee vertical to the SD-10, would have been really crowded on the S-10 (GFI said it is possible, though).

So I'd say to try an S-10 before going for it, after playing a D-10...the SD-10 is a good compromise, and the GFI is pretty light.

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 2 Mar 2012 4:30 pm

HOWARD, where in Florida do you live????

Ken, Davie, Floirda

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 2 Mar 2012 7:02 pm

Personal preference, and due to the fact that I play a lot of C6, a single width body doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I rather prefer it for size and weight issues. I recently acquired an S-10 that will be converted to a C6 guitar for those very reasons.

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 3 Mar 2012 5:54 am

I wanted to thank those of you who replied to my posting. I clearly need to play a S-10 before jumping in as I'm a tall person who would not be happy with a guitar that didn't have a vertical lever to lower the B's. That said I think that I'm leaning toward the SD-10. Now I need to get some info on the Simmons guitar, which apparently is built according to a players height.

Thank you all again. This forum is awesome.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 3 Mar 2012 7:46 am

I have two LKL, one LKR, and one LKV, on my '74 Shobud. No problem. 1" lift kit.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 3 Mar 2012 9:50 am

Howard, all the makers will adjust the height to suit the buyer. Some will charge for it. If you plan to buy new, I'd be armed with both the distance from floor to top of thigh and floor to underside of guitar (you want a LITTLE clearance, but too much and LKV gets hard to move)

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 3 Mar 2012 1:01 pm

Howard-
The GFI folks said that an LKV could be added, it just might require moving other levers a bit to make room, so I didn't attempt it myself...if you buy a used one, they will do it for $180 (on the SD-10, I think price is same for S-10 but not positive)...I just had my purchase shipped directly to them, they added lever, and shipped to me...

Plus, as others have said, you can get lift kits (pedal bar extenders, leg extenders), or even another set of legs and rods, and that would preserve your flexibility if you decide to sell later on...

James Jacoby · Post by **James Jacoby** » 4 Mar 2012 5:26 am

John Billings wrote:"It's always personal preference."

Yes it is! I'm 6'2". My seat is the correct height. My forearm is virtually straight to my right hand. No bent wrist. I'd have to bend my wrist, and hunch over to the right for a pad to be of any use to me. I just don't need a pad. Don't like reaching across unused territory either. I'm very comfortable. So,,, S-10 or 12 for me. And,,, they're quite a bit lighter than an SD-10/12. Less wood, less aluminum, smaller, lighter, case.

I'm with you, John. Got rid of my heavy Sierra SD-U12, and bought a Carter S10. I liked playing the U12, but it was very heavy, and I'm no spring chicken anymore. I needed much less weight to carry around, so I bought my S10 from Rick Troyer, and had him set it up similar to the Sierra except I went with 5 levers, and 5 pedals, Franklin in zero position, A B C &4 I tune it E9/B6 except, of course, I don't have 5 6 7 &8, which I never used, and only have ten strings. I don't particulary like the real low notes, anyway. Guitar weighs 27.5 Lb. and guitar and case weighs 48.5 Lb. After playing a couple months on this rig, my playing improved so much, that I bought another Carter S10 and had it set up identically so I can leave one set up in my music room. Like you, I don't miss having a shelf or pad.
I love the tone, and I feel this was the best move I've made since I started playing steel. (I did have to raise both guitars 1 inch)

Tommy Boswell · Post by **Tommy Boswell** » 4 Mar 2012 6:01 am

I think it depends on what you're used to and what fits your arms and legs. I have 2 S10's, that's all I've ever owned. I'm 5'9", and when I sit down to a D10 or SD10 it feels awkward reaching across a pad or another neck to get at the E9 strings.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 4 Mar 2012 11:27 am

Hi Jake!
I've been thinking of taking off the D string, and having a knee pull the B to D, as on my Kline Uni. That way I could get the low E string, which I really use a lot! Problem is, "Where to put it?" Probably have to add another RKR. Got one on the Kline, and don't have any issues using it. Gotta talk to Ricky!

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 6 Mar 2012 12:58 pm

You probably need to play an S10 and an SD10 to decide. My personal preference is an S10. I don't like reaching across to the front. It always felt awkward. I also don't like my arms sweating on the pad when I play in a short sleeved shirt. Yes, you can lay a towel on the pad, ...but really? Most of all the difference in weight is the big plus. I don't think the stability of a light weight steel is an issue, at least for me. I've played big heavy steels, a Fender 2000, Sho-Bud Pro and a U12 Sierra...All heavy and very stable. My Stage One is very light, stable and very pleasant to play...no issues for me whatsover. I'm 6'1" and fit behind it very comfortably with standard set up. I take it out of the house 2X per week, and I'm loving the weight.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 6 Mar 2012 1:03 pm

"I don't think the stability of a light weight steel is an issue"

If one is a "knee-banger," it might be an issue. Never had any trouble in that regard myself.

James Jacoby · Post by **James Jacoby** » 8 Mar 2012 9:21 pm

Yeah, I think if your guitar is in the 25 to 30 LB. range, and it moves around when you use the levers or pedals, something is working waaay too hard. I'm certainly not a "finesse" player, with my levers, and pedals, and my Carter S10s never move around. -Jake-

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