Ever have a bad recording session?

[Mike Neer]

I did. It was a grueling session (original vintage Country, not really my strength) where the producer had me track every tune 5 different ways (all on non-pedal because they wanted that old sound)--"play through doing chord pads, take the whole solo, take the first half, take the second half...etc." When I had a bum note, we did the whole take again. The guitar wasn't tracked yet, just a scratch vocal. I should mention, I'd never played with these folks before, but I have since.

Anyway, I staggered out of the session (about 3 weeks after my serious car accident) thinking that it wasn't all great, but there was some good stuff there. I had literally sat down and composed a few solos that I thought were pretty nice.

Turns out they didn't use any of my stuff from that day, which bugs me. The had so many tracks (some of it admittedly not that good) that the task of putting it together to get what they needed was too difficult. My ego is bruised, but it's mostly because of the conditions of the session (recording in the control room, no amp sound in the room, only monitors, and the producer, singer, husband, etc. sitting there next to me). Never again. I should have stopped the session while it was going south and said, "this is how it's done".

[Clyde Mattocks]

Pretty much the same. "Just play all the way thru and we'll use what we want'. That doesn't give you a chance to create entrances and exits. It's always a drag when a producer(?) has no idea of the role of a steel. I've been in when they wanted you to hit every chord and kick like you were a rhythm section instrument. Sometimes they don't like any bite, so they'll EQ you till you sound like you're in a burlap bag. The ones I hate are when they try do what they think is country and throw in complex chords all over the place in a three chord song. One of the worst was a session where the rhythm section was lame and draggy and the guy thought the steel could provide the punch that's in a Texas honky tonk shuffle track.

[Ken Morgan]

Whoa!!! No monitors! That's inexcusable.

That aside, I would not fret (no pun intended) about that session too much. A lot of 'producers' like to gather as much audio material as possible, then patch and paste something that in no way resembles a live performance for the final recording. I hate it, but that's the way some people think records are made.

If you did your best, the check didn't bounce, and other players/engineer seemed cool, then things went alright - they will likely last longer than the 'producer' and artist anyway

[Mike Neer]

I was monitoring through the control room monitors (Yamaha NS-10Ms). There was no band--it was only me--4 1/2 hours of nothing but me. Check did not bounce, got paid extra.

[Jim Park]

One thing I have experienced while recording to a scratch vocal, is being out of tune with the new track later down the road during mix down. If you have to hear the track for timing, make sure that the bass is up higher to get a reference and to play in tune. This is something the "engineer" should know....but I don't like when you do it their way and it fails it's YOUR fault......... Ohhh welll no good deed goes unpunished. Maybe John Macy will chime in here

[Herb Steiner]

I've had my share of somewhat "challenging" sessions, but the worst I could recall happened in 1974 in Austin TX.

I was hired by singer/songwriter Willis Alan Ramsey, who was producing a record for a local country trio, Uncle Walt's Band. Willis is a great guy, but at that time was infamous for being hard to please in the studio, even going so far as to record his first album multiple times in different cities, until he felt it satisfied, if he ever did. He was a good songwriter and wrote some hits that made him some money, so he could indulge.

Anyway, at the session he says to me, "now, y'know, I have a reputation as being hard to please, so I really hope we don't have any hard feelings after this session."

I thought that kinda weird, but I told him that I considered myself easy to work with and I'll do my best to give him what he was looking for and I'll be open minded about it.

From the first song... make that the ONLY song... it was Nightmare on Baylor St.. I could do no right. Every idea I tried, that wasn't it. I asked him if he could write the solo out in notation, "sorry no can do." Could you sing the part for me? "Uh, I'm not sure what the part sounds like. I'll just know it when I hear it."

Oh, okay...

After six grueling hours of intense head work with absolutely nothing in the can, I gently suggested that I was tired, out of ideas, and perhaps he should consider another player or even another instrument for the band.

Willis, always a gentleman, was totally understanding. He apologized for the difficult hours with a kinda "I told you so", and paid me $250 for the session. In 1974 Austin TX, that was a very well paid day. But I earned every penny of it.

Sorry for the discourse. Sometmes I get "mouthy."

[chas smith]

through the control room monitors (Yamaha NS-10Ms)

With the 4 sheets of toilet paper hanging down in front of them.

Had one where she, the singer, wanted me because I knew the parts. And he, the semi-famous guitar player/producer/recording engineer wanted his favorite steel player (one of my friends). He did everything he could to make me look bad including having me try to track with the high tinkly piano parts. We did one cut. He had the other steeler come in to do the 2nd cut, who called me after the session and asked, "wtf was that all about?"

There were a number of others where, because of my association with a famous film composer and they wanted to sound like him, they want a sonic miracle. Even if I had been able to deliver a sonic miracle, because they were hack composers, they wouldn't have known what to do with it.

I'm reminded of a comment made by one of the top steel players in LA. "The hardest thing for me is keeping my misanthropy under control for 3 hours."

Which is not to say that I haven't sucked, on a number of occasions.

[Dave Grafe]

"Before diagnosing yourself with lack of talent, inadequate skills or an inability to perform consider the possiblilty that you may simply have been set up to fail by the ineptitude of the morons that surround you..."

[Junior Knight]

oh yeah...anything i play on!

[John Billings]

Sheesh! Worked once with a Rock engineer. He wouldn't let me use the volume pedal. Had no clue how a steel was supposed to sound. I laid down a few tracks, then quit. Got paid though. They used my tracks. Sounded like I was singing through my nose! Just awful. But,,, who cares? The guy went nowhere, and I got paid.

[Ray Riley]

Mike and all,really enjoyed all of the comments on your recording ventures. I guess it is good I am not famous,always had to run my own tape recorders. Ray

[Scott Henderson]

Their's been several but I think the worst was I walked into the "studio" and it looked like Elvis' love nest.....Orange shag, zebra skin curtains, and lots of nicotine covered furniture. and that was just the rehearsal room...The control room looked like a tornado hit a radio station in 1950....I would go on but you kinda know where this is going.....Like Mike said The check didn't bounce....ah good times.....

[Jim Pitman]

Herb, Cool - Willis Alan Rhamsy. It kinda makes sense he is some sorta perfectionist. He only did one record that I know of. (which I really liked)
I have failed in the studio many times but have triumphed many more.

[Mike Neer]

Great stories. Thanks.

[Rick Schmidt]

I've had plenty of good ones, but plenty of horrible ones too. Unfortunately it's taken me a lifetime to learn that no matter how much you wanna get the heck out of there with your paycheck and whatever is left of your self respect, you have to summon up something from your muses that won't haunt you later in life. When I listen to my favorite players, it seems like they never let anything "just pass"...unless it's stellar!

[Barry Blackwood]

More bad ones than good ones, Mike. I feel your pain ...

[Mike Neer]

The pain is gone, I'm over it. But things will change going forward. I won't ever do a session under those circumstances again, which was a shame because the artist is a real sweetheart. I don't tolerate the svengali types very well under normal circumstances.

My days as a sideman are numbered, anyway. I just don't enjoy it anymore and would much rather make little money doing my own thing.

[Stu Schulman]

Mike Willis Alan Ramsey had me play a 4 bar intro for about 4 hours in about 1977 ,I feel for Herb!The weirdest session that I've ever done and believe me there were thousands was for a California country band recording with "Gilbert O'Sullivan in his studio,he kept sending me loud feed back thru the phones, I asked him to turn the track down and outa nowhere he pulls a gun on me? I stand up and tell him to shoot me, he Then breaks down and starts crying, I make the band pay me CASH! while I'm packing my stuff Gilbert sitting on the curb high on quaaludes crying like a baby!I think he had some hits in the 60s, A real mental Midget!!

[Roger Rettig]

The sessions I've done have run the gamut from borderline tedium to sheer terror!

My funniest memory is of the time that I asked them to 'run the track so I can get in tune with it..'; I'd play a chord here, a gliss there and the odd phrase, touching up my tuning as I went along.

Then the track faded out and I heard some one say: "That's just great! I think we've got it!!!"

"No, no!", I cried: "I was just tuning-up!" They must have heard the incredulity in my response, because they grudgingly let me have 'another pass' at the song... "Yes - that was even better!", they conceded.

I believe that I was the first steel-player they'd ever recorded.

[Herb Steiner]

Stu
Your session cuts mine. Any date where the producer is high on quaaludes and pulls a gun on me before going into a fit of sobbing sitting on a curb would definitely make the Willis session seem like a day at the beach.

I occasionally see Willis, incidentally. He lives in Wimberley and owns a steel in case whoever plays guitar on his gigs can use one. It's a Sho~Bud S-10 and I've done setups on it for him. We get along great, like we always have. That one session was an anomaly, and it ended with no hard feelings. Besides, it was 38 freakin' years ago.

[Herb Steiner]

The sessions I've done have run the gamut from borderline tedium to sheer terror!

My funniest memory is of the time that I asked them to 'run the track so I can get in tune with it..'; I'd play a chord here, a gliss there and the odd phrase, touching up my tuning as I went along.

Then the track faded out and I heard some one say: "That's just great! I think we've got it!!!"

"No, no!", I cried: "I was just tuning-up!" They must have heard the incredulity in my response, because they grudgingly let me have 'another pass' at the song... "Yes - that was even better!", they conceded.

I believe that I was the first steel-player they'd ever recorded.

Definitely !!!

[Mike Neer]

....while I'm packing my stuff Gilbert sitting on the curb high on quaaludes crying like a baby!I think he had some hits in the 60s, A real mental Midget!!

After you left, he was alone again, naturally.

[Ken Morgan]

On the other side of the coin, I tried to track a dobro player who brought in 3 guitars, 2 10 space racks of stuff, and an entourage of 4...

All I wanted was a 30 second pass in D major - which he couldn't play without a dozen punch ins, even after 2 hrs.

Poor guy was dismissed, entourage and all, paid in cash (to eliminate any evidence of his ever being here) and has not been seen/heard from since. Something tells me he wasn't a pro

[Roger Rettig]

I remember Gilbert O' very well. I used to do sessions for his manager, Gordon Mills (he also managed Tom Jones and Englelbert H. and, consequently was as rich as Croesus!) who had a huge home-studio attached to his mansion on the St George's Hill Estate in Weybridge, Surrey.

Gilbert (real name Ray) was a very odd chap, but - we all felt - enormously talented. He was never comfortable with all the attention that his hits had brought him, and it was only Gordon's constant urging that kept him writing and recording. When Mills died (very young: 50, I believe) O'Sullivan faded into obscurity.

[Stu Schulman]

Rodger ,He faded into Hawthorne Ca!