Ray Price-Day or Emmons

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 25 Jan 2012 7:09 pm

Ray Minich wrote: Jimmy Day's touch and tone went places that Buddy's didn't... and vice versa.

More than touch and tone (which I prefer Buddy's), what stands out in MY mind about Jimmy's playing is best summed up as ATTITUDE. His up-front In-your-face attitude comes through and rings in his playing.

robert kramer · Post by **robert kramer** » 25 Jan 2012 8:49 pm

"When did Buddy switch from a Sho-Bud to an Emmons?" That’s a good question.

In the liner notes to “Steel Guitar Jazz/Four Wheel Drive” (Steel Guitar Record Club No. 5) Buddy states: “The funny part about it was that my ‘Emmons’ guitar was just coming out at the time (…of the release of the “Steel Guitar Jazz” LP Mercury 20843)

The release date of “Steel Guitar Jazz” is 7/1/1963.

Going back to the Ray Price Bear Family discography – the Emmons/Price sessions after 7/1/63 are as follows:

12/18/63

“THAT’S ALL THAT MATTERS” (“Burning Memories” LP -1965)- pedal steel inaudible
“BURNING MEMORIES” (“Burning Memories” LP -1965) - pedal steel inaudible
“EACH TIME” ("The Same Ole Me" LP - 1966)

2/25/64 (3 sessions on this date - Jimmy Day also on the card - all songs released in 1964 on the "Love Life" LP (CS-8989)

“TAKE ME AS I AM OR LET ME GO”
“ALL RIGHT” (I’LL SIGN THE PAPERS)
”I FALL TO PIECES”
“PLEASE TALK TO MY HEART”
“COLD, COLD HEART”
“STILL”
“I DON’T KNOW WHY I KEEP LOVING YOU”
“SAME OLD MEMORIES”

Based on these dates - I would guess the “Night Life” LP - 1963 (CS-8771) is a Sho-Bud and that the new Emmons guitar first appears on the “Love Life” LP - 1964 (CS-8989)

As both Buddy & Jimmy Day are on “Love Life” I would say if you’re listening to this LP and you’re hearing Buddy - you’re hearing the new Emmons guitar.

Keep in mind Price's Columbia recordings were never issued on LP in the order they were recorded.

Possibly the last Emmons/Price Columbia w/ Sho-Bud: is “A WAY TO FREE MYSELF “ recorded 4/30/63 and was not issued until the Bear Family box set. The version of “A WAY TO FREE MYSELF “ on “Love Life” was recorded 2/6/64 w/ Jimmy Day. Possibly the last Emmons/Price Columbia w/ Sho-Bud that was issued by Columbia is "ARE YOU SURE" released in 1963 on the "Night Life" LP.

Possibly the first time Buddy Emmons uses the the new Emmons guitar on a session is “EACH TIME” recorded 12/18/63 but not issued until 1966 on Price's "The Same Old Me" LP (D/DS 157)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdAi4sol ... re=related

Possibly the first time the public hears the new Emmons pedal steel guitar on a recording is in 1964 with the release of "Love Life." I'm guessing the first song with the Emmons steel being either - "TAKE ME AS I AM OR LET ME GO" (not on YouTube)

or - “ALL RIGHT” (I’LL SIGN THE PAPERS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzfWfzU4Hfg

***** If anyone knows the correct answer to Dean's question or has any corrections or additions - I will edit post.

On the 8 song - 12/25/64 - "Love Life" session I've been unable to establish which songs Day is on and which songs Emmons is on - or if they are - in fact - both playing together on some of the songs. They are both on the card. If anyone can match Day and/or Emmons to each song - that would tell the story and give us our answer.

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 25 Jan 2012 9:53 pm

Possibly the first Emmons/Price Columbia w/ Emmons pedal steel guitar is “EACH TIME” recorded 12/18/63 (unissued until the Bear Family Ray Price Box Set)

I've heard that song for years as a waltz with a walking bass, by Bush and Hooker, and it really warped my head when I heard Price do it as a 4/4 shuffle just recently on the Bear set. Very cool. Price also did it as a slow waltz, so which one are you alluding to, Robert?

robert kramer · Post by **robert kramer** » 26 Jan 2012 6:15 am

Thanks Cal - Good observation as usual. I made several mistakes in my previous post and have corrected them. (working late on a school night)

Re: "EACH TIME" - I'm referring to waltz w/ walking bass version recorded 12/18/63 but not released by Columbia until 1966 on "The Same Ole Me" LP (Columbia D/DS-157) This is possibly the first Emmons/Price Columbia recording with the new Emmons pedal steel guitar.

The version of "EACH TIME" with the 4/4 shuffle was recorded 8/11/66 but not issued until the Bear Family box set. This is definitely an Emmons guitar - in fact - it is the "Touch my Heart" guitar because the song "Touch My Heart" was next up on the date.

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 26 Jan 2012 8:08 am

Fascinating. Thanks, robert. That guitar sounds so good, wow.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 26 Jan 2012 2:32 pm

On the Night Life Album, Jimmy Day is on "The Twenty-Fourth Hour", and Pride.

This picture is the answer to what Buddy played.

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 27 Jan 2012 10:53 pm

I once asked Buddy when he thought it was that he might have first used a new Emmons guitar on either a record or a live date. Though we could never really seem to pin that down, at that time he did say that he believed that he never took an Emmons push/pull guitar out on any type of job until he got "The Wagon", which was an early '65 wraparound neck, mono guitar featuring the newer style changers with longer fingers....same as you'd get today if you bought a new reissue guitar.
The first series of Emmons guitars which were made from early '63-mid December of '64 had short changer fingers which appear to be cast, not machined from stock, and were mounted on 3/8" axles, as opposed to the next model(manufactured from mid Dec.'64-early'65), which had 1/2" axles with the new longer fingers, followed in mid '65 by the appearance of the 9/16" axle, again same changer as featured on the current reissue models.
The shorter fingers on the early models, along with the pedal rod hookup notch being too close to the pedal cross shaft caused some stiffness in the feel which Buddy once alluded to in an interview when asked about those early guitars. Also, the shorter changer fingers had only one raise hook hole at the end of the finger which made for a long pedal travel when raising and lowering the same string. In that interview his words were to the effect that the early guitars had some leverage and feel issues, but all that was straightened out a few models later. Just an aside here....Im not sure whether its Herb Steiner or Jim Loessberg who has it, but I restored one wraparound guitar which had a 1/2" changer axle on one neck and a 9/16" axle on the other, obviously a transistion piece. Dating it would definitively answer the question of when the change was about to be made in axle size.
At any rate, E said that the design factors on those early prototype-ish guitars led to his decision not to use an Emmons guitar until he got "The Wagon" sometime in '65.
What all this means is that the album "Love Life" features Buddy still on his Sho-Bud, along with any other albums until those cut in early '65 or later.

Mike Cass,
Authorized Dealer, and The Worlds Only Factory Authorized Repair Station for Emmons Original Guitars and Emmons Guitars by Lashley, Inc.
Sales, Parts and Service, specializing in factory spec repairs and restorations of Emmons LeGrande and Emmons Original Guitars.
Mon-Fri, 10am-6pm CST. Ph# 615-446-5952.
email: mwillsteel@comcast.net

robert kramer · Post by **robert kramer** » 28 Jan 2012 8:11 am

Mike - that's just excellent - as usual.

The last Emmons/Price Columbia session for 1964 is 12/9/64 for songs released on the "Western Strings" LP (Columbia 9139)

The first Emmons/Price Columbia session in 1965 is:

MARCH 9, 1965, (18:00-22:30); Columbia Studios, 804 16th Avenue South, Nashville, Tennessee; Producer: Don Law & Frank Jones
RAY PRICE: vocal; HAROLD RAY BRADLEY: acoustic rhythm guitar; THOMAS GRADY MARTIN; guitar/leader; BUDDY GENE EMMONS: steel guitar; UNKNOWN: bass; MURREY M.'Buddy' HARMON, JR; drums; THOMAS LEE 'TOMMY' JACKSON, JR: drums; FLOYD CRAMER: piano

231. NCO 82627-3 THE OTHER WOMAN (Don Rollins) Co 43264/CL 2382/CS 9182

232. NCO 82628-13 TEARFUL EARFUL (Don Rollins) Co 43264/CL 2382/CS 9182

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaoM0YiG1B4

THE OTHER WOMAN was released in 1965 on "The Other Woman" LP (Columbia CS-9182)

THE OTHER WOMAN backed by TEARFUL EARFUL was released on 45 RPM (Columbia 43264) on 5/8/65 and went #2 Billboard for 2 weeks spending a total of 24 weeks on the charts.

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 28 Jan 2012 8:55 am

Well, there's the monkey wrench in my theory then, as I do know that Buddy used a single neck, 16 string, wraparound push/pull Emmons guitar on the song "Lily Dale" from the "Western Strings" album. There's a pic of it somewhere on here....wierd tiger stripe finish with a racoon tail hanging off the end of the too-long-for-the-body keyhead

Plus, Dave Robbins owns a wraparound dated 12/64/017 which Buddy owned and used for a time, though E said he got it after he'd gotten "The Wagon". That guitar, #17, was designed to attempt split tuning and had an extra row of endplate tuning screw holes for that purpose. Pics of that guitar are on Ernie's tribute site, I believe.
You have to remember that almost from the start with the original Emmons Guitar Co. Inc., a number of bodies were mica or lacquer finished, assembled in the dated and/or serial #-stamped endplates, flocked and stacked up in the basement before there was an order for one. So determining the actual date of manufacture of an early Emmons guitar not to mention its delivery date is especially difficult if not impossible. The best we can do is to venture an educated guess based on Buddy's recollections along with the evidence myself and the very few others still alive who are intimately familiar with the Emmons Original Guitars have seen, as the serial # file @ the Emmons factory while helpful, is still somewhat incomplete.
So, I guess the mystery continues...........

robert kramer · Post by **robert kramer** » 28 Jan 2012 10:36 am

Mike - Excellent again! Thanks!

The Bob Will's song "Lily Dale" was renamed "Linda Lou" and credited to Linda Price when it was issued on the "Western Strings" LP. "Lily Dale" was old cowboy song written in 1852 by H.S. Thompson. Billy Jack Wills wrote a new melody to the version Bob Wills recorded and made famous.

DECEMBER 7, 1964, (18:00-20:30/21:00-24:00); Columbia Studios, 804 16th Avenue South, Nashville, Tennessee; Producer Don Law & Frank Jones
RAY PRICE: guitar/leader; HAROLD RAY BRADLEY: guitar or electric bass; CHARLES R. 'Charlie' HARRIS:guitar; THOMAS GRADY MARTIN: guitar; BUDDY GENE EMMONS: steel guitar; PETE BURKE, JR: bass; MURRY M. 'Buddy' HARMAN, JR: drums; JOHN B. 'Johnny Bush' SHINN III: drums; FRANCIS KEITH COLEMAN: fiddle; THOMAS LEE 'Tommy' JACKSON JR: fiddle; WADE RAY: fiddle; FLOYD CRAMER: piano

NCO 80856-4 DREAM'S DREAM (arr. Ray Price) CL 2339/CS9139
NCO 80857-3 MAIDEN'S PRAYER (arr. Ray Price) CL 2339/CS9139
NCO 80858-2 LINDA LOU (Linda Price) CL 2339/CS9139
NCO 80859-6 LIL' LIZA JANE (arr. Ray Price) CL 2339/CS9139
NCO 80860-3 TWINKLE, TWINKLE LITTLE STAR (arr. Ray Price) CL 2339/CS9139

"Linda Lou"/"Lily Dale" is not on YouTube but a sample can be heard here on Amazon.com Music Sampler for the Ray Price Bear Family Box Set. Scroll down to #215:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radi ... fix=dp_img

The "Western Strings" LP (CS-9139) with the song "Linda Lou"/"Lily Dale" was released in 1965:

Emmons 20 String (possibly the first Emmons pedal steel on record ???)

Now just to put ourselves back in the room at Columbia on the evening of December 7th, 1964 with Ray Price, Buddy Emmons and the all Cherokee Cowboys - here is "Lil' Liza Jane" - the song recorded immediately after "Linda Lou":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipY__aGQWNo

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 28 Jan 2012 10:54 am

THE OTHER WOMAN backed by TEARFUL EARFUL was released on 45 RPM (Columbia 43264) on 5/8/65 and went #2 Billboard for 2 weeks spending a total of 24 weeks on the charts.[/quote]

I once read that Jimmy Day was on "Tearful Earful" because Buddy considered the song a piece of garbage to put it nicely and walked out on the session, so Jimmy sat in and played on it.

robert kramer · Post by **robert kramer** » 28 Jan 2012 11:25 am

Thanks Craig - I always wondered which session and song(s) that story referred to. Listening to "Tearful Earful" it does sound like Day. The way I remember the story - Buddy stood up and Jimmy sat down at BE's guitar - which on this date would have been an Emmons steel. Discographies are not infallible - even though Day is not on the card for that date doesn't mean he wasn't there and didn't sit down.
Here is a sample of "Tearful Earful" from the Amazon Music Sampler for the Price Bear Family Box Set. Scroll down to 226:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radi ... fix=dp_img

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 3 Feb 2012 5:34 am

oops, yeah, 20 strings. Silly me. CRS is kicking in more nowadays. Yep, Bob, that could be the one....whatta behemoth, huh? d like to know where that axe is.......love the stenciled-on pickguard(?) and the drink ring

Jim Loessberg · Post by **Jim Loessberg** » 6 Feb 2012 1:19 pm

Mike,

That's my guitar with one 1/2" axle. I have always been under the impression that the other axle is a 5/8". Oh well, you've seen it and I haven't!

The date of the guitar is April 1965.

Best,

Jim

Buddy Emmons · Post by **Buddy Emmons** » 7 Feb 2012 5:02 pm

Here’s the story behind the 20 string Emmons in the picture. We were a few weeks away from starting the Western Strings album and I wanted to record Linda Lou with a dual string sound. I had been playing one Shot Jackson built but didn’t want to ask him to play it because I was with the Emmons Guitar Co., so I asked Ron Lashley to make a 20 string single neck.
Due to a time problem, Ron told me he didn’t have a single neck body cut out and the double ten bodies were too short for the twenty string neck, and were unfinished maple, so I said slap the neck on double ten body, let it hang out over the end, and don’t bother putting a finish on it. When I received the guitar, it was raw white maple that needed dressing up, so I took a magic marker and drew tiger stripes on the back cabinet and on the top front I inked in a pick guard. To add a finishing touch I attached a coon tail on the key head, printed the name Shoo Bug on it and I was ready to go.
We recorded Linda Lou with it as you see in the picture and I left the guitar in the studio because we had a session the next morning. Meanwhile, Shot had heard about it and went by the studio to check it out. Apparently Shot didn’t think it was funny so when I got to the studio the next morning, he had poured maple syrup through the strings and over the keyboard. We had cut the song and it was history and it didn’t do all that much damage to an already lame guitar so I wiped it off and took it home. Shot was the king of pranksters, and knowing he didn’t find it funny made all the funnier for me.
There you have it.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 7 Feb 2012 6:01 pm

Buddy Emmons wrote

Meanwhile, Shot had heard about it and went by the studio to check it out. Apparently Shot didn’t think it was funny so when I got to the studio the next morning, he had poured maple syrup through the strings and over the keyboard

This guitar MUST be nicknamed and forevermore be recognised as "The Waffle", all in favor say aye.

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 7 Feb 2012 8:38 pm

How freakin' cool, Buddy gives us the lowdown on that behemoth guitar. And, yeah, out-pranking Shot is like hitting a brush-back from Roger Clemens outta the park.

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 10 Feb 2012 1:47 am

.......bringing a new meaning to the term; "tiger stripe maple".

Marcel Parijs · Post by **Marcel Parijs** » 11 Feb 2012 3:11 am

Thanks Buddy for the story.

Wow 20 string on 1 neck. Must be a lot of forces on the neck.

Mike, is not a bad idea for the manufacters.
The Eddy Van Halen steelguitar. haha.

Regards,

Marcel

Marcel Parijs · Post by **Marcel Parijs** » 11 Feb 2012 3:42 am

Or better `The Buddy Emmons Tiger Stripe model`.