Fishman Nashville Pickup questions

[Richard Chapman]

I have read all the previous post on this subject and I am still a bit hesitant on this system and have a couple of questions for those who have installed the system and / or pickup. I am considering this for my 73 OMI/D-60 that is my one and only.

Did you find the acoustic change to your instrument objectionable? Was the change in sound a big change?

When used with the JD-Aura pedal how do you handle a boost for solos?

If using another preamp (Fishman Venue, Baggs Para, etc) did you get a chance to A / B with the JD Aura pedal and why did you go the route you went?

Has anyone ordered just a bridge and pickup assembly from beard and how did that work out?

Thank you for any opinions you can provide. This is a very expensive proposition for me, but when I do play small clubs or sit in, I am just not able to compete with everyone plugged in.

[Howard Parker]

Did you find the acoustic change to your instrument objectionable? Was the change in sound a big change?

In my case...no change at all!

When used with the JD-Aura pedal how do you handle a boost for solos?

I just pick less aggressively. Some folks go with a volume pedal. The Ernie Ball Jr is popular. Many opt for a "clean boost" pedal.

If using another preamp (Fishman Venue, Baggs Para, etc) did you get a chance to A / B with the JD Aura pedal and why did you go the route you went?

The difference is the acoustic guitar image in the Aura pedal itself. I adds the essence of the guitar that the piezo pickup strips out. The difference with/without the Aura pedal is startling.

I DO also have a Fishman eq/DI in my signal chain. I use it to give me additional routing when required, also some tone shaping, again if required.

Has anyone ordered just a bridge and pickup assembly from beard and how did that work out?

Thank you for any opinions you can provide. This is a very expensive proposition for me, but when I do play small clubs or sit in, I am just not able to compete with everyone plugged in.

Firstly for sake of full disclosure. I'm recently retired from Beard Guitars although I continue to work with Paul at festivals and trade shows. I am also primarily a reso player, playing across genres, bluegrass, Americana, roots rock etc. The JD pickup is on all of my guitars.

Ordering the pickup/spider only is somewhat of a crap shoot. If you trust your luthiery skills then you might attempt the install. I can tell you that anecdotaly I'd estimate 50% of self installs end in failure and the destruction of the pickup.

If you buy the whole rig from Paul he will not charge labor for the install. Yes, you will pay shipping both ways.

I'll also point out that if your guitar is factory stock you should probably opt for a new nut and cone and complete what is otherwise a total new setup.

My personal experiences are that I've been through every pickup known to mankind over the years and I am positively in lust with this rig on my PERSONAL guitars. It gives me the ability to compete with telecasters when I have to with a full array of effects or settle back into pure acoustic tones.

In the eight years I was in the shop I played hundreds of installs including the guitars belonging to folks you know and recognize and respect. This is a remarkable system.

As to the cost. Yes, you are correct. It is expensive. But, if you need these attributes, well, you need this pickup.

My .02 ymmv and others might respectfully disagree.

Cheers

hp

[gary pierce]

X2

[Greg Booth]

Howard, I put the Aura system in a Gibson Dobro by ordering the pickup from Beard preinstalled in the Beard adjustable spider.The website says,"Paul Beard cast ADJUSTABLE No. 14 spider, cast aluminum, 4.3oz. Clamping mechanism allows for bridge insert installation without gluing. Allows for insert height adjustments without risking damage to bridge inserts. Spider shipped properly arched with legs leveled. A perfect mate to the JDFPUP under saddle pickup (sold separately)." This seems to pose no risk to the pickup and a reasonable approach for a DIY installation. There is still the routing of the PU wire and installing a jack, in my case the guitar came installed with a jack and the so called Fishman "doughnut" pickup. Many players send the output from the JD Aura pedal through the Radial PZ pre which has an adjustable boost switch for soloing, adjustable eq. as well as a switchable 2nd channel for another instrument.

[Howard Parker]

Thanks for chiming in Greg (a fantastic player)!

There are a fair number of guitars out there where the adjustment of the spider is not enough, either because the palm rest is low on that particular coverplate or the action is way low and they try to match it. The best fix in those cases is usually to swap out the coverplate for one with a higher palm rest, or one of the new removable palm rests. The other issue is who is doing the slotting of the pickup. Incorrect slotting effects the output of the device.

The self install DOES work nicely in many cases. Just as many self installs go bad though.

The Radial is a terrific box <sigh>!! I've used one (borrowed) and they are the cat's meow. So far my typical needs are a bit more basic s, I went with the Fishman box.

Thanks,

h

[Larry Robbins]

When the Ebony inserts wear as the can over time, do you have to replace the whole pickup?

[Howard Parker]

They are not ebony. It is a man made material called Tusq. I am not aware of anyone wearing out the bridge, even Jerry Douglas who did all the prototype testing (along with Paul Beard) for Fishman.

In theory I suppose...Yes, the pickup would have to be replaced.

h

[Mark Eaton]

They needed something really hard so Tusq was the choice. I have a man-made material, ebonex, in my Clinesmith which Tim Scheerhorn mostly uses and it is harder than the real deal ebony, but Jerry Douglas said that even the ebonex was a little soft to be utilized with the pickup when they were testing different materials.

Jerry wrote on his forum last year he sent his JD Limited Model #1 back to Beard for its "million mile checkup." At the time, for TV appearances supporting the new AKUS album he was playing a Beard JD Odyssey, and though talking up the virtues of the Odyssey, he said that he missed having #1.

I seem to recall that one of the comments was that the pickup was giving him some trouble.

I don't know if you were still there full-time Howard, but I'm curious about that. I wonder if they did something to fix it or of a new Fishman Nashville pickup was installed in #1?

[Bill Adams]

I have read all the previous post on this subject and I am still a bit hesitant on this system and have a couple of questions for those who have installed the system and / or pickup. I am considering this for my 73 OMI/D-60 that is my one and only.

Did you find the acoustic change to your instrument objectionable? Was the change in sound a big change? no and no

When used with the JD-Aura pedal how do you handle a boost for solos?
Radial PZ pre (boost switch) Hilton volume pedal

If using another preamp (Fishman Venue, Baggs Para, etc) did you get a chance to A / B with the JD Aura pedal and why did you go the route you went?
Radial PZ pre: Para, DI, A/B switch, etc. That Baggs para is very sweet also.

Has anyone ordered just a bridge and pickup assembly from beard and how did that work out? +1 on Howard's post. He has more experience with this than the rest of us combined. Have it professionally done. I did mine but it's not perfect...and I like my reso setups PERFECT.

Thank you for any opinions you can provide. This is a very expensive proposition for me, but when I do play small clubs or sit in, I am just not able to compete with everyone plugged in.

If your ensemble's stage volume is too loud (amps behind, monitors in front) any reso is going to 'roar' at some point. The things I've found to help are para, aura, phase, amp & monitor placement & direction, in-ear monitors help keep stage volume down, considerate bandmates.

This IMHO is the state of the art system. Im glad I went with it, recommend it.

[Howard Parker]

seem to recall that one of the comments was that the pickup was giving him some trouble.

I don't know if you were still there full-time Howard, but I'm curious about that. I wonder if they did something to fix it or of a new Fishman Nashville pickup was installed in #1?

I was there full time until November 2011. I have a vague recollection that the pickup was replaced. Jerry is a Fishman endorser so..if there is a hint of an issue Jerry would have been provided a new pickup.

If someone might not have heard the system HERE is one of my favorite YouTube vids with Jerry and the lovely Alison Krauss. A kick butt rendition of Paul Simon's "Graceland".

[Howard Parker]

A couple more:

Jerry (at about 1:50) with Vince Gill.

Mike Auldrige and one of his guitars HERE! testing his guitar with the pickup and with/without the pedal, which is darn interesting. He goes througha bunch of different pedal settings.

h

[Webb Kline]

The video at Beard with Mike sums up everything I've found to be true with my Fishman/Aura/Douglas system. You have to watch it beyond the first part of the video, because that is just demonstrating the pickup with the mic modeling turned off. Then Paul turns the modeler up and the pickup down, and that's when things really start to happen. Like Jimmy says, you forget that you're even plugged into an amp, and as Mike pointed out, it actually sounds better in a lot of situations than it does unplugged.

When I first tried mine when Howard brought it out to me, I couldn't believe it was turned on it sounded that good. In the video, Paul opines that the mics should be used more as an eq in that you dial in the right mic for the right room. I concur with that.

It's the best thing that ever happened to my dobro playing because I can actually hear in a band situation, and the sound inspires me and I'm never distracted by trying to run away from feedback, because there simply is none. Best pickup system for any acoustic I've ever heard. It's worth the $500 to let them have their way with the install @ Beard in my opinion. My guitar never sounded better acoustically than when they were finished with it. I've had it for a year with no problems at all. I have an older Fishman in my 31 Dobro and the preamp made it sound 500% better than it ever sounded, but it still doesn't hold up to the new pickup.

[Steven Meyrich]

I had Kent Schoonover put his spider with the Fishman pickup into my Scheerhorn R body. I love the sound of the guitar plugged and unplugged. I have tried every mic and pickup over the years that has come down the line and this is the best by far. The Aura box works great and I run it through a Radial Pre Z and use the boost switch for solos. The best set up I have ever had especially when the going gets loud. Kent is a great guy to work with and I don't trust my own skills for this kind of set up.

Steve

[Mark Eaton]

The Schoonover modular spider setup for the Fishman Nashville pickup is one beautiful piece of work.

Glad to hear that you love the sound unplugged as well. Seems to be sort of a Hatfield vs. The McCoys argument on that particular aspect of the unit.

[Steven Meyrich]

Mark, I had not heard complaints about the unplugged sound of Kent's spider. I was thinking of putting it in my L Body too. So I wonder who is unhappy?

Steve

[Mark Eaton]

Not about Kent's unit itself - but about the sound of the Fishman Nashville bridge insert/pickup combination.

Some players have said that they don't like the sound of the insert acoustically compared to ebonex, natural ebony, or any number of other materials when played acoustically.

On the other hand, one of the top dobro players around is Mike Witcher, and he has the Fishman set up with the same deal as you, the Schoonover spider, and he seems happy with the acoustic sound in his Clinesmith koa. I don't know what the spider assembly is in the Merediths as played by Andy Hall, but I know that some of his guitars have the Fishman in them, and he plays plugged in quite often with the Infamous Stringdusters. And Jerry Douglas seems pretty happy with the sound of his guitars from an acoustic standpoint with the Fishman.

You mentioned your L Body. it seems to me that players that don't care for the acoustic sound as much are mostly Scheerhorn owners. I don't know if it is something unique to the tone of 'horns that the Fishman insert doesn't jive with, or if it has something more to do with the idea of "desecrating" a "holy grail" level guitar that is ultra-expensive. In this same thread Greg was pointing out how he has the Fishman in a Gibson Dobro. But he doesn't have one his Scheerhorn, which is one of the most amazing sounding guitars I have ever played or heard.

I'm not making fun of those guys - for example, I took delivery on a Custom Shop Martin dreadnought last August, and I'm still struggling with the idea of putting a pickup in it. The notion of having a wider hole drilled where the endpin is to receive a 1/4 inch jack kind of freaks me out and I'm reluctant to do it. Same sort of thing - messing with the "pristineness" of the guitar.

[Steven Meyrich]

Yes I been reluctant to put it in my L Body Scheerhorn for those kinds of reasons so I guess I am guilty of that concern as well. That instrument has a Schertler set up but once you use the Fishman its hard to go back. But I can appreciate your reluctance to mess with your Martin although I have a really rare Krimmel guitar with a Highland under saddle in it and I think its fine. YMMV I guess. But resonators can be put back to original set ups more easily. I have my original Scheerhorn spider for the R body and it could always be reinstalled. I think other acoustics like your Martin are different in that respect.

Steve

[Bill Adams]

Mark, Steven, Your concerns re the L-Body are valid. I had them 3 or so years ago when I replaced my ebonex inserts in my L-body with the Fishmans. Did it effect the tone? Only slightly to my ear. Could I restore the guitar to original? Yes, which I probably would when I sell it.(I would want the fishman system for any reso I perform with, until something better comes along.) 99+% people would not be able to hear the difference. imho

[Steven Meyrich]

Thanks for your comments Bill. I actually think my R Body sounds as good with the Schoonover set up-maybe even better. I did have Kent put a new cone in at the same time so its not a scientific comparison. I think I'm one of the 99% that can't hear the difference and I really think the sound of the plugged in set up is exceptional after years of trying all sort of other setups.

[Bob Haglock]

Hi all, saw this thread and thought I'd throw this out to see what you thought. I just started playing in a southern country/rock band. They play much louder than I normally play. I'm playing a 95 dobro with a fishman pick-up on the cone that Tim Scheerhorn installed. I'm also playing a d-10 msa. Both go into a line selector pedal then to a Peavey Tubefex, then to my Peavey session 400. My only problem is when I'm on the dobro and have to crank it up , I'm getting the dreaded squeal. I've just set the dobro to a tube effects setting and selected a 5 band eq in it hoping it will help. Anyone else run into anything like this? Thanks, Bob.