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Topic: Question On Sho Bud Knee Lever Copedent |
Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2012 12:35 pm |
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Here's my situation..I want to set up my S-10 and D-10 the same, so I don't jump off rooftops (at least once)! I'm a total beginner to PSG and would like to hear how your Sho Bud's are set up, before I spend a small ransom on these two guitars! 
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 31 Jan 2012 3:39 pm ?
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Just a suggestion (with utmost respect):
Why don't you buy just one...and learn to play it first? 
I feel that only after you have learned and developed a modicum of skills and repetoire can you make your OWN decision about what suits YOU best. How a guitar is best set up depends on how it is equipped, what kind of music and styles you like, and also on what kind of skills you have.
Better to have just one to have to have changed around than two.
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 31 Jan 2012 6:46 pm
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My background is straight ahead jazz guitar (6 string), and after buying the S-10, which I love, I got a D-10 to take advantage of the C6 neck. I've already got plans on how to go ahead. Thanks for your opinion.
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 31 Jan 2012 9:46 pm
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Set up the front neck of the D-10 to match your S-10, and the back neck to standard C6th.
I think that the stock Sho-Bud copedent had the F lever on RKR. I'd move it to LKL because it works naturally there with the A pedal.
You didn't say how many knee levers you have to work with, so it's really hard to answer your question.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 31 Jan 2012 11:13 pm
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Carl, like Doug just said, and like folks have pointed out in that "optimizing your PSG" thread, the main thing is playability.
Every person will have a reason and explanation for their layout.
And you haven't said how many knees you have or want
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 31 Jan 2012 11:22 pm
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| Doug Beaumier wrote: |
| b0b, the Sho-Buds I've seen have the E to D# Lower on the Right knee and the F lever on the Left knee. Probably many of them have been switched over nowadays, but back in the 70s and 80s that's how most of them left the factory as far as I know. |
That's how I like it!
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 31 Jan 2012 11:56 pm
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I think Carl's S-10 Sho-Bud has one knee lever on the Right knee that Lowers string 8 (E to D#) and also Lowers string 2 (D# to D)...? That was the standard single lever Sho-Bud setup in the early 1970s, and I think that's what is on his S-10, although I haven't seen the guitar.
I played Carl's D-10 rack & barrel Sho-Bud a few days ago, and as I remember there are two knee levers. The F lever is on the Left knee, and the E to D# Lower is on the Right knee. IMO it would be best to put the E Lower on the Left knee (same knee as the F raise), since most E9 setups are like that. He wants the same setup on both guitars since he's still in the early stages of learning. So one question is... should he leave the F levers (on both guitars) on the right knee or switch them over to the left knee. And the S-10... that would need another knee lever to match the other guitar. IMO every E9 setup should raise and lower both E strings 1/2 tone. The next most important change would be the 2nd string D# to D lower. Just my opinion.
Carl, I hope I got your info right, and I hope you don't mind me speaking for you about this... rock on!
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My Site / My YouTube Channel
25 Songs C6 Lap Steel / 25 MORE Songs C6 Lap Steel / 16 Songs, C6, A6, B11 / 60 Popular Melodies E9 Pedal Steel |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2012 4:55 am
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The S-10 has only RKL which lowers both E's and and lowers D# , The D-10 has RKL which lowers E's on the E9 and lowers C (C neck 3rd string) to Bb, and LKL which raises E's on the E9 neck. My plan is to get 3 or 4 levers on each and get the D# on a separate lever, and move the E's to a new LKR. I think Doug's guitar is set up with the E's all on the left side. Thanks, Doug 
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown
Last edited by Carl Mesrobian on 1 Feb 2012 6:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 1 Feb 2012 5:22 am
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My opinion FWIW, if you're a new player it doesn't matter a whole lot.
The Sho-Bud configuration works pretty good, I think.
Lower 4 & 8 on RKL, Raise 4 & 8 on LKL same as you already have them on the D10.
Lower 2 and 9 on RKR.
If you add another lever on LKR, it could lower 6 a whole tone and maybe raise 1 a half or a whole.....[OR] Lower both 5 & 10 a half tone. Still others lower 3 & 6 a half tone there but that would be my last choice personally.
I would respect Doug's opinion and recommendation as much as anyone's. If you are going to be taking lessons from him or anticipating sitting in on his guitar, putting all E lowers and raises on the left knee might be a good idea. I think most modern guitars leave the factory with them that way now as standard.
There's good arguments for both arrangements.
All this assuming you have the Emmons setup on the floor of course. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 Feb 2012 6:01 am
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One thought, of varying import, that came to mind as recalled my early days:
If you plan to take a good deal of lessons, it will prove a little easier if you share copedent with the teacher, allowing mirror neurons to do their thing.
I rearranged my Marlen after the second lesson, because I found it confusing to hit RKL when teacher hit LKR.
YMMV, of course.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2012 6:35 am
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Yes, Lane, that was the catalyst for my plan to change these beasties over! Doug and I talked about this and there's always the option of leaving the E levers the way they are - kind of like a padlock on your guitar at a jam session!! I've had many talks with James Morehead about all this and feel that I should get all the mechanicals for 4 levers now and I can always change rods as I figure out what I like and don't like - that way I'm set for any future changes without having to install more knee levers. Thank you all for helping me sort through this!
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 Feb 2012 7:13 am
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Not to mention that the rack and barrel system is designed for ADHD copedent changes.
Once you hang the levers and racks, you can reassign pretty easy.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2012 8:10 am
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Suits me perfectly 
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 1 Feb 2012 2:25 pm
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One disadvantage to that (and I use this lick a bunch, especially in minor key work, both in the vi and iii {that's A pedal and the D# lever} minor position) is that you can't go to, then peel away from, the unison at D#.
A cascade like this (all at the same fret; the numbers are string numbers, the underline means let the unison ring as you let the next lower string peel away ): 3, 1, 4, 4-,2 2--, then 2--,5A, 5
I wish there was a tab creator/editor for android
You'd lose that lick, if part of your bag of tricks, by lowering 4 and 2 on the same knee
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2012 3:46 pm
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Yeah, I don't have that particular lick, but I have lot of whole-tone bend licks on strings 4 and 8 in the A+F position that make up for it. 
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 2 Feb 2012 8:01 am
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Carl, when I bought my ShoBud single neck new in '77 it came from the factory with the standard three floor pedals. The knee levers were as follows...
Left knee left....raised 4th and 8th strings E to F
Left knee right...raised 1st and 7th strings F# to G#
Right knee left...lowered 4th and 8th strings E to D# (Eb)
Right knee right..lowered 2nd string D# to D and on to C# with the double stop. I later added the lower of the 9th string D to C# with this lever.....JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Carl Mesrobian
From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2012 9:48 am
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Thanks, Jerry:
It's nice to see how they originally were! I think my case is closed on how many levers to have (4). Once I get out of the muck and mire of my bathroom project, I'll be putting time into fixing these guys, shedding (pick blocking, argh!), and making them sing
_________________
--carl
"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown |
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Storm Rosson
From:
Silver City, NM. USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2012 10:41 am
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| b0b wrote: |
Set up the front neck of the D-10 to match your S-10, and the back neck to standard C6th.
I think that the stock Sho-Bud copedent had the F lever on RKR. I'd move it to LKL because it works naturally there with the A pedal.
You didn't say how many knee levers you have to work with, so it's really hard to answer your question. |
I'm kinda with ya B0b as I like my E>F on my RKR lust feels more natural on the F knee for augmenteds etc. and the E to D# lower on the RKL easy for A pedal + E lowered form 7ths at least for me....I think Al Briscoe had his set up like this .....Stormy |
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