10th String lower w/ C pedal

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 17 Dec 2011 8:26 am

I'm fooling around with lowering my E9 10th string 1/2 step with the C pedal. It gives me a root for a #9 chord along with strings 9, 6 and 5, sort of an E9 "Boo-wah". Does anyone else do this? Is there a drawback to this change I'm overlooking?

Fred Justice · Post by **Fred Justice** » 17 Dec 2011 8:30 am

Peter I lower my 5 & 10 on C pedal
http://www.fredjusticemusic.com/id14.html

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 17 Dec 2011 8:39 am

I wasn't clear that I'm adding the 10th string lower to the standard C pedal changes.

I used to use the C pedal for lowering 5. It had some cool uses, but I've found some things I like to use it for raising 4 and 5. I have the 5th string lower on a VKL, but it's awkward for me so I don't use it much. At some point I'm going to ask Jim Palenscar to modify the lever to make it more ergonomically comfortable.

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 17 Dec 2011 1:06 pm

OK. I'm figuring out why nobody else uses that change. I remembered something I can't do with the C pedal lowering string 10. So I've restored P3 to standard and put the string 10 1/2 step lower on P4. Now P3 and P4 together give me a #9 chord ala P8 on C6. I'll report as soon as I figure out why nobody seems to do that. It's a good thing I'm not trying this stuff on a p/p. It'd take all day instead of just minutes.

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 17 Dec 2011 7:19 pm

Peter, I used to lower 10 to Bb on my C pedal along with the normal C pedal change. I've been thinking about adding it to the guitar I have now.

Tony

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 18 Dec 2011 1:49 am

It's a cool change on the C pedal but I think putting the 10th string lower on P4 is going to be better for me. There is some string 4 & 6 B & C pedal stuff that I work against the 10th string where I don't want it lowered.

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 18 Dec 2011 1:50 am

Double post, sorry

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 18 Dec 2011 6:08 am

My "RKLF" lowers the low B to A. Here a page of sounds using it:

http://gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Split%20Fran ... 20Tab.html

Greg

Bob Mc Donald · Post by **Bob Mc Donald** » 18 Dec 2011 6:20 am

I lower it on my C pedal B - A

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 18 Dec 2011 7:34 am

Hi Pete,
I too lower my 10 string to A with my C pedal. It's useful for all sorts of stuff, but probably not what you're after if your thinking of B>Bb. On your EMCI you could use the feel-stop finger to go B>Bb>A. That would be cool to have. How's the old EMCI doing? Let me know when you're tired of it.

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 18 Dec 2011 9:41 am

Cliff, I'm afraid the EMCI is a keeper. Others do turn up for sale fairly often though. I haven't heard of a bad sounding welded frame (E)MCI yet.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 18 Dec 2011 1:15 pm

Wow you freakin' learn something new every day. I have NEVER thought of that...I immediately see a bazzillion things I would like to do with lowering the 10th string B to A...on the C pedal(I don't want anymore knees that the 4 I have)and keeping 4 and 5 raising whole tone standard....
I'm going out NOW and do that...>thank you for raising the thought....awesome.
(only prob. I can think of is a pretty good amount of added tension on a pedal that you want to move pretty quick...>but on my barrel tuners behind two-hole pullers LDG....NOT A PROB...smoothest steel I've ever played)
Ricky

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 18 Dec 2011 7:48 pm

The extra tension is why I got away from raising string 10 on the C pedal (I lower 10 a whole step on my A pedal). It also caused some detuning, I assume because it was nearer to the middle of the body (I know some will argue there is no such thing as cabinet drop, it's all at the changer, etc.) I love and wouldn't give up that change on A, but I really
missed the big fat I-IV change on 10-8-6 or 10-6-4, so I just gave in and but the whole change (10 up a whole, 6 up a half) on my "x" pedal, to the left of pedal A.

Dan

Duane Brown · Post by **Duane Brown** » 18 Dec 2011 7:59 pm

I have lowered 5&10 1/2 tone to Bb for years on LKV. It's easy to get used to and I couldn't live without it.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 18 Dec 2011 9:11 pm

Ive scoured over different copedents and dont know if Ive seen it posted. If it was I must have missed it. Like Ricky, I am gonna try this out real soon too! I use the LKV with BC, but usually just strings 3,4,5,6. If you lower 5 and 10 already with a vertical to Bb, can both be combined to lower 10 to Ab?

Clete

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 19 Dec 2011 6:12 am

What I was looking for was a bit different. A 1/2 step lower on 10 along with a full step raise on 5 to get a #9 chord with the root, on 10, 9, 6 and 5. Used often on a VI7 chord (Boo-wah), but also interesting on a II7, III7, bII7, anywhere you would use an altered dominant 7chord. Or to play "Foxy Lady".

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 19 Dec 2011 7:46 am

The poor man's version of that chord on E9 (or do we now call it the 99%-ers version

) is to play 9-6-5 with the A pedal down, one fret below the A+B position version of the chord. So, for the E#9, play 9-6-5 with A pedal at fret 6 (=G#-D-G [or F##, to be more technically accurate]), grabbing the root separately "off the beat," so to speak. I have toyed with a way to get string 10 down a half step to give the root of the chord, which is what Peter's C pedal idea accomplishes. I'm gonna give it a try!

Dan

Dan Galysh · Post by **Dan Galysh** » 19 Dec 2011 11:50 am

Jimmie Crawford had a 5th whole tone raise and 10th string half tone lower on P9, I believe. I get the #9 lowering string 7 a half and lowering 9 a half on 4,5,7 and 9. It's nice to get the full chord though by striking strings 9 and 10 with your thumb with Peter's option.