C6 Tunings

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Steve Ahola
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Post by Steve Ahola »

John Ed Kelly wrote:Geez..................I wish I could actually get my hands on an eight stringer LP.
You might look into building one yourself (or having one built). I've been happy with my Deeks lap steel and if you look at the pictures in the link you can get a good idea how it is made:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=210262

You would have to buy a pickup- I recommend the George L mainly because it will work with 6, 8 or 10 strings (you don't have to worry about pole pieces lining up with the strings). For the neck I think that you would want to use a nice tone wood; you can order peel'n'stick fretboards for a 24" scale.

The bridge and nut are made from aluminum angle; the keyhead is made from flat aluminum stock and a hard wood. (The angled cuts on the base of the nut are what holds the keyhead in place- very clever!)

Just an idea...

Steve Ahola
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Steve Ahola
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Post by Steve Ahola »

Ryan Barwin wrote:On my 8-string console, I tend to switch back and forth between F A C E G A C E and G Bb C E G A C E depending on the song. It's nice to have the root on the bottom for the Fmaj9 chord, like you'd have on a pedal guitar, or the Bb to get a dominant chord without losing the basic 6-string tuning like you would with the C6/A7 tuning. So that's what I'd recommend.
I've been playing this tuning (with the low F and A) for awhile now and I really like it a lot! I just now noticed that it is exactly the same as the Don Helms E6 tuning, but moved down 4 frets. And raising the two bottom strings to G and Bb make it exactly the same as the Little Roy Wiggins E13th tuning but moved down 4 frets.

Thanks again for posting your tuning- it puts those bottom 2 strings to good use!

Steve Ahola
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Scott Hay
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Post by Scott Hay »

Mike, what would you add with your 9th string? Dig your blog. Hi Ray :)
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Karl Fehrenbach
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Post by Karl Fehrenbach »

I have traditionally been a six string lap steel player, but will shortly move to 8 strings and will utilize the FACEGACE tuning. If you are looking for instructional material in that non pedal tuning, Bobbe Seymour, Steel Guitat Nashville, has a DVD demonstrating it. The F in the bass as the 8th string is the beauty of this tuning and allows for a warm, fat sound especially the major 7 chord that falls on the last 4 strings. Pedal steel players would feel right at home as that is the default tuning used on the middle 8 strings of a 10 string pedal steel C6 neck.
Chris Newell
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My 8-string HI-G tuning

Post by Chris Newell »

On my Magnatone Troubadour, I use Cindy Cashdollar's basic Hi-G tuning (GECAGECA) BUT with a twist:

Bb (223.1 Hz)
G
E
C
A
G
E
C

I don't really have much use for the low C anyway and the "wild string" Bb gives me a dominant 7th with the adjoining 3 high strings and is useful as a passing tone. Plus it makes me think I'm playing PSG again which makes me feel good.

I think I read somewhere Joaquin Murphy used the mid-range Bb to replace his low A string.

A chaque a son gout.
Last edited by Chris Newell on 14 Dec 2011 4:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Steve Ahola
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Re: My 8-string HI-G tuning

Post by Steve Ahola »

Chris Newell wrote:On my Magnatone Troubadour, I use Cindy Cashdollar's basic Hi-G tuning (GCEAGECA) BUT with a twist...
Chris corrected the typos in his original post and cleared all of this up:
[Do you mean G-E-C-A-G-E-C-A? Or is there no typographical error and your 4th string is pitched higher than your 3rd string? In any event I believe that Cindy's tuning does not use any re-entrant strings but I could be mistaken about that.

[Is your first string lower than your 8th string? I believe that the 8th note C would be 130hz so a 116.5hz Bb would be lower than that.]


Thanks for posting your tuning! IMO the big difference between lap steel and pedal steel is not the actual pedals and levers, but the whole range of different tunings used regularly for non-pedal steel. (It is fairly simple to experiment with different tunings on a lap steel since you don't have to deal with reconfiguring the undercarriage.) Just my opinion...

Steve Ahola

P.S. Thanks for correcting your post, Chris. I didn't mean to sound like I was nitpicking- I make plenty of typos myself.
Last edited by Steve Ahola on 16 Dec 2011 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris Newell
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Re: My 8-string HI-G tuning

Post by Chris Newell »

Hi Steve
I made a couple of errors in my posting (fixed now)...
- GECAGECA (high to low)
- The Bb on the 1st string is actually 223.1 Hz
- It provides a dominant 7th with the adjoining 3 highest strings.
Steve Ahola wrote:
Chris Newell wrote:On my Magnatone Troubadour, I use Cindy Cashdollar's basic Hi-G tuning (GCEAGECA) BUT with a twist...
Do you mean G-E-C-A-G-E-C-A? Or is there no typographical error and your 4th string is pitched higher than your 3rd string? In any event I believe that Cindy's tuning does not use any re-entrant strings but I could be mistaken about that.

Is your first string lower than your 8th string? I believe that the 8th note C would be 130hz so a 116.5hz Bb would be lower than that.

Thanks for posting your tuning! IMO the big difference between lap steel and pedal steel is not the actual pedals and levers, but the whole range of different tunings used regularly for non-pedal steel. (It is fairly simple to experiment with different tunings on a lap steel since you don't have to deal with reconfiguring the undercarriage.) Just my opinion...

Steve Ahola
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Ray Montee
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It's a GRAND olde tuning!

Post by Ray Montee »

JERRY BYRD was recorded playing HIS 'new' C6th tuning, (a tuning he claimed to invent prior to Feb. 19, 1939) by Ron Dearth at his music studio in Ohio.

The late Al Stotler apparently has been the keeper of this historic recording.
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Steve Ahola
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Re: My 8-string HI-G tuning

Post by Steve Ahola »

Chris Newell wrote:Hi Steve
I made a couple of errors in my posting (fixed now)...
- GECAGECA (high to low)
- The Bb on the 1st string is actually 223.1 Hz
- It provides a dominant 7th with the adjoining 3 highest strings.
I see that your tuning is similar Joaquin Murphey's, but with the re-entrant note (the Bb) on the top rather than the bottom. (He used a B instead of a Bb and a C# instead of a C as the lowest note.)

With the re-entrant string on the bottom it makes some of the slants much easier, while having it on the top would be a big help with single note riffs not requiring slants. Probably the reason that the re-entrant strings ended up at the top on E9th pedal steels.

Thanks again for sharing your tuning! In the old days steel guitarist would try to keep their tunings a secret (Speedy West would detune some of his strings before leaving the bandstand according to some reports- just so other steel guitarists could not figure out his tuning.)

Steve Ahola
Jack Aldrich
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Post by Jack Aldrich »

I use a C6 with a G on the top and a Bb (drop to A for Panhandle Rag, eg) on the bottom on my single 8 steels, and drop the high G (string 1 on an 8)and the low C (string 7 on an 8) on my 6 string ones. If I need to play a B11 song, I lower the middle G to an F#, and it becomes a Eb11. I do How'd Ya Do in the key of C, Sand in E, etc. I only do this if I don't have my double 8 Stringmaster with me and someone requests one of the songs I do on the B11 tuning.
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Steve Ahola
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Post by Steve Ahola »

James Quillian wrote:A lot of blues is played with the idea that every note should played with as much intensity as is possible. That works real well tuned to an open chord.

I belong to another camp that prefers blues that is played at an optimum intensity. I have found some but not of lot of blues played with C6. I conjecture that C6 will actually be the best tuning for playing blues when the goal is to get an optimum rather maximum intensity. (Lets say just cooking rather than totally exploding on every note.)

I am giving it a try. Before picking up the lap steel, I had already pick the tuning based on what I had heard.
I would guess that your maximum intensity vs optimum intensity idea is related to the dynamics of the playing, going from soft to loud and mellow to intense. Is that what you are talking about?

As for open chords, most tunings are open chords; what differs is which chord is used along with its complexity. Triads are the simplest, used in open E or bottleneck tunings and in the G or A dobro tunings. With triads the intervals between strings are much more limited than something like a C6th which adds the major 6th tone. Slants will increase the number of intervals available with triads, but they are even more intervals available when using slants on a major 6th tuning.

C6th has been used for some very tasty blues playing, like on some of the Hank Williams recordings (when he wasn't using Don Helms). But I prefer E9th myself, because it more complex harmonically and it handles dominant and minor chords very well (which covers perhaps 90%+ of blues songs).

I find C6 to be much more useful when I am playing songs that involve major scales to some extent. (The major 6th note is very neutral in the sense that it can be used in major, minor and dominant chords. The flatted 7th note limits you to dominant, minor and half-diminished chords, ruling out the major scale.) Of course with any tuning you can play more complex chords and additional scales by using slants and moving from the I position.

One thing I like about the E9th tuning is that you must move from the I position to get the middle root note (like the middle E in E9th). But it is mainly all of the different intervals available from the straight positions that I like the most. The tritone is very important in blues and you don't get that from a straight position with C6th.

I usually suggest that people try out different tunings to see which one(s) they can relate to the best. It might depend on how our brains are wired but some tunings seem to work better for some people. For me E9th works best for me for blues and rock material- although a year ago I could not imagine playing a tuning that did not have that middle (or lower) root. FWIW right now I actually prefer 6 string E9th to 8 string for blues because being limited to 6 strings forces me to go to other positions.

E9th:
E-B-G#-F#-D-B-(G#)-(E)

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Post by Steve Ahola »

John Allison wrote:The high 3rd tuning I use is a cross between the Don Helms and Leon McAuliffe E13's:
G#
E
C#
B
G#
F#
D
B (or low E)
Wow- that is the 8 string E tuning (E13/9?) that I have finally ended up with after going through all of the various E13ths, E6ths and E9ths. I tried it first on my 1960 Alkire 10 string with the low E and G# on the bottom and to get used to that I tried putting the top 8 strings on my Melbert 8 stringer. I liked it! I thought I would miss the low strings but then again I really like having the B-D-F# B minor triad on the bottom 3 strings (as they are with my 6 string E9th steels.)

I thought that the extra strings in there would throw me off, but it is fairly easy to just ignore particular strings to get Buddy's E9th or Leon's E13th or... (It is much harder to selectively skip different strings on different frets.)
[tab]
Little Roy's Leon's Buddy's Someone's Noel Boggs
E13th E13th E9th E6 C#m7-9


G# x no no x no
E x x x x x
C# x x no x x
B x x x x no
G# x x x x x
F#/E E F# F# E F#
D/C# D D D C# D
B x no x x x
(G#) no x x no x
(E) no x x no x[/tab]

Steve Ahola

P.S. This thread is titled "C6 tunings" but this post isn't completely off-topic because I use the same intervals for my 8 string C6 steels although I usually like the middle C for the 6th string instead of the 9th(D).

For 10 string C6 I use the open strings from a C6 pedal steel (add the low C on the bottom and a high D on top pitched between the 2nd and 3rd strings.) Having D-E-C on the top 3 strings works great for stuff like banjo rolls. For awhile I had those same intervals on the top 3 strings of my 10 string E9th steel F#-G#-E before settling on the tuning listed above (I figured that one 10 string "banjo roller" was enough.)
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Stefan Robertson
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Post by Stefan Robertson »

Hey Dustin as an E13 Nerd wanted to let you know you don't need all of those changes to achieve the chords mentioned.
Tune Low-Hi (B, D, E, F#, g#, b, c#, e

You can do all of the chords mentioned plus many more. example in the key of C your Maj 7 in root position is on the 10th fret, Maj7 5th on top on the 3rd fret, Maj7 with 3rd on top on the 5th fret and so on, so is your #11 on the 10th fret and your m7b5 is on the 4th fret and your dim is on the 7th fret, m6 on the 1st fret, augmented on the 6th fret(reverse slant) and so much more. Just a taster.

Join the E13 group I have on Facebook may help.
Dustin Farnum wrote:...
The second is the Don Helms E13:
1 – G# 12
2 – E 14
3 – C# 17
4 – B 20
5 – G# 24w
6 – E 30w
7 – C# 34w
8 – D/B/A 40w
You can tune the 8th string to what works for the song. Tuning to A gives you an A major 7th chord. D provides and E 7th option and B provides a standard E6 option. I usually tune the 8th string to A. I really like the sound of the major 7th chord.

So far I have left the third neck in a basic E7 tuning (E,B,G#,E,D,B,G#,E). That seems to be a good basic tuning for Blues and Johnny Cash style country.

I'm afraid that I am developing a steel guitar addiction.
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com

"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist"
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