What would you choose out of these two twins??? (old vs new)

Benjamin Wolfram · From: Victoria, Australia

Okay quick question...a 4 year old Fender 65 Twin 212 has just popped up for sale for a tad cheaper than this second hand blackfaced Twin is going to cost me.

The 65 Twin is just a new production type model completely stock as far as I'm aware. The old blackfaced one is the one I mentioned in my other thread which is a silver face model, been blackfaced, sprague orange drop caps and a good working over and running on 6V6's...apparently a bloody killer amp by all accounts! I just started a new thread so I'd get opinions quicker since I was going to hand over the money this afternoon.

Which would you choose??? Not taking into account money because essentially a hundred bucks difference isn't going to sway me on price alone. Newer one might be more reliable but if the old one has been properly gone over and everything shouldn't it just be as reliable but with much more mojo?

Trust this to happen, just as I decide to get one Twin another one pops up half a day before I actually hand over the cash

Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

This isn't a question that anyone else can answer - it is really about what you care about. Will it matter to you that you passed up the old one for a new one? Can you hear the difference, if there is one? I assure you that nobody in your audience will know or care...you aren't talking about using a Twin vs. a low-end amp here...

Over the years I went from caring completely about every little detail to just wanting something that was care free and had 95% of the sound...our bass player has had his blackface bassman back in the shop 3 times now, and each time it was "gone over completely"....as you replace some parts, the stress on other parts surfaces....

But if you will get satisfaction out of owning a restored classic modded to make it even better, then go for it.....

One way to decide is to flip a coin - don't just go with how it comes out, but think about how you feel when you see the result....that feeling will tell you what you really want to do....

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

If it is a Fender I would take stock over reworked any time, certainly if there is an issue with it down the road it can be addressed by anybody who knows Fender amps, rather than only the "reworker" who knows what they did to it, and the resale value will always be much better, too.

IMHO if you want an amp with 6V6's get one designed for them, it's not like there aren't any out there...

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Hand wired over a printed circuit all day, every day... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

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Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Bob-
I agree - and disagree. My amp is a Matchless, all hand wired PTP. My computer is a PC board. I'm not sure that this factor alone means anything....it is more that the PC board devices often also include cheaper components, with higher tolerances for values....but I had a Deluxe Reverb Reissue, and it sounded just fine. Maybe slightly different than an original, but just fine nonetheless.

this topic is religions argument for sure, and I truly respect every other possible opinion on the matter....it boils down (IMHO) to, listen to it and see how it sounds, if it sounds good to you, then it is good...

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I'm with Bob C. and Bill H. 100%. Handwired, period. If you've ever tried to work on a tube amp with tubes, pots, and so on directly connected to the PC board, you'd know why we are saying this. There is a reason those old Fenders take a beating and keep on teaking.

Now, I assume this handwired Twin is the silverface that's had a black panel put on and runs with 4-6V6's you discussed on another thread. So I still make the same caveat I made on that thread - make sure you know what you're getting into with that amp. If it was modded right and your B+ voltages and bias are right for 6V6's, it could be cool - those old Jim Kelly amps ran 4-6V6's, and good luck finding one, they're cool. But otherwise, I'd skip it.

Of course, the other option is to simply wait until you find exactly what you want. There are plenty of fish out there, and insightful patience is generally rewarded. My take.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

My opinion based on my experience of owning and playing through the Fender reissue twins is pretty negative. The highs are never right. The new Fenders are fuzzy and harsh where the old ones can sparkle and sing. I have used a pile of them in back line situations and the 65 Reissue twins have a very consistent sound. They work and can be functional but are not in the same ballpark as the old ones.

Who knows though ? Maybe the particular reissue amp you are looking at is better than the blackfaced one. Some "amp guru" could have really screwed up the old one.

Play through them and see what sounds good to you.
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Bob

Jason Hull · Posted 28 Nov 2011 1:02 am

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Unless you know exactly what a "Blackfaced Twin" is...

The term Blackfaced is now used as an everyday occurrence, to imply, same as the 64 thru 67 amps...of which most are not even close.

Is this the so called Master Volume Blackfaced Twin where the tech used Orange Drop caps ? If it is..

it is NOT Blackfaced.

My band mate uses a 65 Twin RI now and then and it is fine, loud clean..reliable.
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

I don't know squat about the electronics of the Fender twins old, new, reissue whatever. But I have a friend that has a 65 Twin reissue, and his Emmons Legrand sounds absoutely awesome played through the 65 Reissue. He's had this amp for many years with no trouble out of it.
I've got a 77 Vibrosonic that Ken Fox went through several years ago. I'm playing through a Rick Johnson cab with a 15" K-130. It sounds awesome playing my 84 Sho-bud or my 93 Mullen, if you like clean and smooth. But I wish I could get a tad of grit/sizzle out of that amp. Either it don't have it, or I don't know how to get it. Either way, I'm gonna keep it. Taking it to Dan Rollan's Thursday and let him cover it with the black Fender tolex, and get rid of that ole yellow tweed. Smile

terry

Brad Sarno · From: St. Louis, MO USA

Benjamin Wolfram · From: Victoria, Australia

Well I'm definitely going to try and go down the handwired route and not be swayed by a cheaper price...just make sure I get a good one.

Well that older 6V6 twin is still available but I spoke to one of the amp guys who worked on it and he actually said that it was a fantastic amp reliability wise and sound wise, very good condition. He also said that with the 6V6s it's actually running at around 40-50 watts instead of the usual 80 watts. This kind of scared me off a bit because I don't really want to have to muck around with something I just want to be able to use it, but I don't know Twins that well. All I know is that I once had a 40-50 watt tweed '59 type Bassman and it broke up much too easily with my steel through it but that's probably not comparing apples with apples is it?

Just to throw some confusion into the mix a really good original top condition Bassman 100 head has come up for sale and I can grab it for a great price, but this is just the head with no reverb...even though it's probably a killer amp.

Also a local amp builder who builds really great clones of classic amps has a Tweed Twin he has just finished and I might be able to get that for around the same price as the Silverface 6V6 Twin, might even be able to get him to put reverb into it for me. All hand wired and top notch parts...I'm pretty keen on that one or the Bassman head to be honest.

TOO MANY CHOICES NOW!!!

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Benjamin, just remember, there is really no such thing as a 6V6 Twin Reverb.

t
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Rich Hlaves · From: Wildomar, California, USA

If you are going to play six string or lap through the 6V6 twin it may be the hot ticket. With steel guitar it may not have the headroom you require.

I would also question what was done to run the 6V6 power tubes in sockets with B+ voltages designed for 6L6 tubes. Done correctly it could be a fine amp. If they were just stuffed in there they won't live very long. Specially with today's higher line voltages here in the States.

Other considerations would be the output transformer. This amp with a stock twin OT would now be happiest with an 8 ohm load not the stock 4 ohm load of a twin.

I custom build Deluxe Reverb clones with 6L6 power tubes instead of the 6V6s. I use beafier iron and run a higher quality OTs designed for the load the customer is going to apply. 8 ohm, 4 ohm etc. These amps are not much louder than stock but stay cleaner when cranked. Your twin prospect seems set up to do the opposite.

Personally I would perfer the hand wired amp all things being equal. In this case I'd really need my eyes and ears to make the decision.

Although not on the table I would also prefer a SF 2-6L6 Pro Preverb to the Twin-Zilla unless the Twin was really well done mod wise.
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On man....let the smoke out of another one.

Benjamin Wolfram · From: Victoria, Australia

I think I'm going to stay away from that Twin since it isn't really a Twin after all...could the fact that we're talking about an Australian amplifier running on 240 volts have anything to do with it? Are our transformers different in some way that would make the 6V6 thing okay? I have no idea I'm just curious.

Rich Hlaves · From: Wildomar, California, USA

The 240V you have would not affect this. The difference in the power transformer is for input/line voltage only.

I think you are making a wise choice not knowing how the mods where made.
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On man....let the smoke out of another one.

Benjamin Wolfram · From: Victoria, Australia

I have plenty of confidence that the mods were done properly by someone in the know but I'm still going to go another route just because I'd rather not have to muck around with something to get it where I want it to be.

Rich Santucci · From: Perkasie Pennsylvania USA

My concerns here would be the if the output transformer has been changed to match the primary impedence for the 6V6's and if the power supply has been modified for nominal 6V6 plate voltages. Some newer 6V6's, especially JJ's, have specs similar to 6L6's in that the spec says they can handle 500V on the plate! The RCA manual specs 6V6's at 350V on the plate. Quite a difference.

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