Steeler's Ankle?

Dennis Shearin · Post by **Dennis Shearin** » 16 Apr 2011 4:48 pm

I am a nubie. I've been playing various stringed instruments for most of my life, but only took up the steel a few months ago.

I've also noticed that for the past few months, I've been experiencing very sharp pain in my left ankle (not just when I play, but when I walk as well). I suppose it could be a coincidence, but I don't think so.

Is this a known phenomenon? Is there anything I can do to make it better (I've started wearing an ankle brace, which helps a bit)? Or is this something that will just go away in time (like the blister on your fingers when you're learning guitar)?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. I really hope I don't have to choose between playing the steel and walking.

Thanks.

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 16 Apr 2011 7:50 pm

massage... it gets better over time...

Jonathan Cullifer · Post by **Jonathan Cullifer** » 16 Apr 2011 7:57 pm

When I don't play for a while, my ankles get tired. It was exacerbated when I switched from Day to Emmons pedals. Neither was really harder after I got used to it, but the getting used to it was the hard part. I'd go easy for a while.

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 16 Apr 2011 7:59 pm

when i first started playing my girlfriend who is a massage therapist and my chiropractor were both appalled at what was happening to my body...

espcially with the massage.. the outside of my left ankle the muscle would just turn to steel from all the B to A mashing...

therapy definitely helped but I think you are just using different muscles that need to get stronger...

Dave Magram · Post by **Dave Magram** » 16 Apr 2011 8:38 pm

Since one's ankles get quite a workout with PSG, I've found it helpful to do 15 or 20 deep knee-bends (aka squats) everyday, and then another 15-20 slow one-legged squats on each leg.

The one-legged version strengthens your ankles, keeps them limber, and helps with balance too.

-Dave

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 16 Apr 2011 11:31 pm

Learning the pedal steel does indeed utilize many muscle groups that may or may not yet be developed as a beginning player.
I hadnt a clue what I was in for, but had a bad case of steelers wrist until I got used to the necessary downward pressure on the tonebar.

Caution:
Wrist and ankle dexterity required!

I think most spectators unfamiliar with playing PSG may focus on the bar and hands primarily, but dont realize what the feet and knees are doing as well.
Many folks have never seen the undercarriage of these instruments!
Pedal and lever pressure is such a balancing act at times; with half-pedaling and half-stops, that unless youre totally relaxed and limber, that tension builds up with no where to go. It winds up as pain in dem bones, and its not funny.

Think of playing and practice as a physical exercise and warm up, stretch, play, cool down.
Repeat as often as your brain, bones and muscles can handle.

On another note:
Get or have your steel modified to fit you personally.
If you are hunched over—lower the seat.
If your shoulders are up and wrists arched—raise your seat.
If you cant reach the vertical—lower the legs or the lever.
If your legs dont fit under the steel—raise the height of the steel.
Every body is different and the key is comfort!

Clete

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 17 Apr 2011 11:56 am

A lot of this depends on how old you are and just how generally limber you are. I would be really careful about overdoing something which would then need months of rest - some pre-playing stretching is definitely in order here. I recently changed primary-care doctors to one who specializes in sports injuries, just because my age and my unkindness to my joints in earlier years was causing enough stiffness and pain to really hinder me.

There are definitely exercises designed for every part of the body, you really need to find the right ones for this problem. Steel guitar certainly isolates a strange group of muscles.

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 17 Apr 2011 1:04 pm

One thing I've found that works for me personally, and I'm sure there will be those who disagree, is that wearing boots helped eliminate the foot pain I used to have from playing steel. I wear harness boots, AKA motorcycle boots, made by Frye. To me having the stiff sole and the raised heel makes pushing those pedals much easier...the heel gives you a nice pivot point, and since your heel is raised slightly, you don't have to torque the ankle as much on the way down. The stiff sole means you won't lose efficiency due to the sole (and foot) bending laterally - this helps a lot with the A-B bends.

Christopher Wray · Post by **Christopher Wray** » 18 Apr 2011 3:50 pm

I think Bryan is on to something there. I've only been playing for about 4 or 5 months now and one of (if not THE) first post I ever made on this forum was about this same issue. My ankles were so sore when I first started playing and I was worried I was doing something wrong. I don't even notice it now. I think playing with a heel helps but I have to play with rubber souls. I don't like the way my cowboy boots slide all over the pedals. Whatever route you take, I think it will get better with time.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 19 Apr 2011 5:25 am

After a while it will become something that you do without thinking about it. Muscle memory. It just takes PRACTICE.

For years I thought I would never be able to coordinate right knee right and the volume pedal. One day it just happened. Haven't thought about it since.

Dennis Shearin · Post by **Dennis Shearin** » 26 Apr 2011 10:45 am

Just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to respond.

There's a lot of great advice and I will be trying to apply some of this knowledge.

Mostly, I feel better knowing it's not just me.

This forum is a great resource and I look forward to participating more.

Thank you.

Dennis Shearin · Post by **Dennis Shearin** » 9 Jul 2011 4:53 pm

I have an important update.

I got a lot of great advice here and some of it was helpful, but nothing really solved the problem.

I was just about to give up when I thought of one more thing to try. I'd been sitting on a kitchen chair (I'm still a long way from playing in front of people). I remembered reading somewhere that pedal steel seats are usually about 20" tall, and this chair was 18". It didn't seem like much of a difference, but I was willing to give it a shot.

I bought an adjustable drum throne and cranked it up to a little over 20". Eurika! The second that I sat down behind the steel, I was sure I had found the answer. It instantly felt comfortable (like that ugly old shirt you just can't throw away).

I've been doing some longer practice sessions and I feel absolutely no discomfort. Better still, the chronic pain which had been dogging me for months is now fading away (almost completely gone).

I wanted to update this in case someone else ran into the same problem - and to thank everyone on the forum, once again, for their support.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 10 Jul 2011 9:08 am

Some musclepain in the beginning of your playing career is normal.
If it holds on, look for a good ergonomist or fysiotherapist. It is possible to play without pain!
JJ

Chris Johnson · Post by **Chris Johnson** » 10 Jul 2011 7:32 pm

I've always found the modern Emmons ABC position to be very uncomfortable as they are usually close to the end of the guitar (for cabinet drop reasons I guess).

I've found that moving the ABC to the 2nd 3rd and 4th pedal slot position to feel more natural.

C.J.

Jerry Meek · Post by **Jerry Meek** » 11 Jul 2011 2:40 pm

Try adjusting the rod length of the AB&C pedals and make sure you are using your ankle twisting the least possible. Most everbodies ankle tips better one way than the other. Or possibly switch from the Emmons setup to the Day setup or vice versa. Just a possibility.Good luck.

Peter Darling · Post by **Peter Darling** » 11 Jul 2011 11:14 pm

I am new to PSG and also found it difficult on the left ankle.I think it,s important to firstly sit in a comfortable position with your left leg below the knee sitting vertical.Too far back towards the heel will render it humanly impossible to raise the toe end. Perhaps slightly forward of vertical. Then fit your PSG around you!!!..In my case I found that I had to sit hunched up and well forwards in order to operate the pedals and the three left knee levers. After much thinking I resolved the problem by bringing the centre line of the guitar to that of just above my knees by exttending the pedal bar legs a good 4". Therefore tilting the whole shooting match towards me.Bingo!!!! My huge size 11 feet were nicely on the pedals and the knee levers were all brought forward towards me so my knees could operate them comfortably. The pedal rods had to be adjusted for greater length so the pedals pointed somewhat downwards. I use the DAY pedal arrangement so my A and B pedals are straight ahead and less tiring on the ankle. I also have pedal B lower than Pedal A as it is a lot easier to twist the left human ankle to the left but from the straight position it is impossible to twist to the right as the human structure will not allow this...Try it just sitting down and you,ll see what I mean.

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 12 Jul 2011 3:37 am

This subject is brought up quite often, what one needs to do is think a little about what is causing their problem. As with most things, if it seems difficult, you are probably doing something wrong.

Here's what I think; you don't actually need to bend the ankle that much, you need to adjust your seating position. Center your body at the 15th fret, the right leg is at 90 degrees to the guitar, the left leg extends at an angle, with the foot over the A+B pedals. The left heel will be located somewhere in front of the C pedal. Sitting this way reduces the ankle bending. About 5 years ago, I severely sprained my left ankle, so bad that it swelled to double in size. I could not bend it at all. But I had no problem continuing to play every day. All this is my opinion, but it has worked fine for me, I'm sure there are exceptions, but it looks to me like most of the best players do this.

Jan Viljoen · Post by **Jan Viljoen** » 14 Jul 2011 11:59 am

I have been playing for 5 months now and suddenly my ankle started swelling on both sides and it hurts like hell.
So much so that can't walk, properly. I practiced 1 1/2 hours every day, and I have the Emmons cope.
I use to be a good athlete and reasonbly fit.

I am now on serious medication and I stopped playing for a while. I am afraid of permenant damage to my ligaments.

What did I do wrong? What else must I do?
Please help.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 14 Jul 2011 1:05 pm

Posted 14 Jul 2011 11:59 am Ankle Away!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been playing for 5 months now and suddenly my ankle started swelling on both sides.
So much so that cant walk, properly. I practiced 1 1/2 hours every day, and I have the Emmons cope.
I use to be a good athlete and reasonbly fit.

I am now on serious medication and I stopped playing for a while.
What else could i do?
Please help.

Invite a fysiotherapist to your home, sit down behind your steel and play. Let him tell you how to change hight of seat and position behind your steel.
Good luck and keep us informed!
regards,
Johan

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 19 Jul 2011 6:05 pm

The key to minimising any ankle pain issues is setting the guitar up properly in the first place so that it is ergonomically correct ! Setting the A pedal a little higher than the B helps minimise the amount of angle you have to put on the left ankle when, for example, rolling off the B pedal and holding the A pedal down ! Tweak everything, including seat height till you feel comfortable and there is the minimum amount of movement and effort required to activate all your pedals and knees !

It's just the start of the journey by the way

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 19 Jul 2011 8:34 pm

I started having ankle pain after switching from a P/P to a Zum.

The pedal action was so light on the Zum, that I couldn't rest my foot on pedals A+B w/o affecting pitch on the respective strings. I was overusing my ankle muscles to keep my foot poised just above the pedals, causing "shin-splint" pain.

The solution was to back off (actually disconnect) the raise-helper springs to help stabilize the pedals enough so can rest my foot on them w/o changing the pitch.

Terry Winter · Post by **Terry Winter** » 20 Jul 2011 6:42 am

This is an interesting post. After analyzing my posture I find I have never had ankle problems but I find I don't sit square on my seat and my feet are square over the pedals but sitting this way puts a little strain on my back and I find my right knee slightly engages the RKL ever so slightly from time to time. After years of playing I better try altering my sitting positioning.
Terry

Jan Viljoen · Post by **Jan Viljoen** » 20 Jul 2011 7:55 am

To all blokes who contributed.

Thanx guys, I lowered all pedals and then raised the A pedal slightly for a comfy push.
Then I changed shoes and moved my left foot to a position nearer to the C pedal.

It still hurts playing, still some swelling and treatment, I can only stomp for 5 minutes at a time, but it feels a lot better.
I have no problems with my wrist.

I saw on U tube an Irish woman, Sarah Jory, playing very well and hitting the pedals with high heels with no problems.

Thanx to Paddy L, Jerry M and Bryan D for good advice.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 20 Jul 2011 8:07 am

Minor point: I believe Sarah Jory is English, though the videos were taken at an Irish event. And those aren't just high heels; they're really high heels!

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 20 Jul 2011 12:19 pm

It seems women have some advantage here. Back in the 1940s and '50s there was a Hammond organ player named Ethel Smith who was quite famous in those days and she played the organ's bass pedals with high heels.

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Steeler's Ankle?

Steeler's Ankle?

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