Bassman + Holy grail reverb for pedal steel?

Robby Osenton · Post by **Robby Osenton** » 22 Jun 2011 9:03 am

I am a guitar player that has started using pedal steel more and more. I am tired of bringing two rigs!

With that in mind, I sold my tweed deluxe

and am looking for a big tube amp to use with steel on the middle channel and guitar on the front channel with an overdrive box. I am usually a plug in and let it rip kind of guitar player, but I found a pedal called the catalinbread formula no 5 that I think will work well for me.

I want to get a head and 2x12 format to reduce weight. 50lbs a piece for a head and a cab isnt a problem, but an 80+ lb amp is a big problem for my back.

I dont have any extra money, so I am really only able to use the $900 I got from my tweed deluxe copy to get all this stuff up and working. I am a fairly competent amp tech, so I am planning on recapping and modding as needed. I have repaired many vintage amps and built a few myself.

My plan is to look for an issues BF or drip edge bassman, which it looks like I can get for $300-$400.

$100 for parts to get it fixed. $200ish for a cab locally. $100 for each pedal.

My question is, how does the bassman work with steel? Will it be as clean as I am looking for?

I could also get a bandmaster, bandmaster reverb, tremolux, etc and put a bassman transformer in them to get to 50watts.

Or, I could get a chopped twin, which would cost more, but then I wouldnt have to buy the reverb pedal. I am worried about that being too loud for my regular guitar sound, even with a pedal. In my experience tube amps really want to be up close to half way to give that great tubey sound. I could pull two tubes to put it lower in volume...

Usually I play in places that mic amps, and occasionally they don't. I dont mind a touch of tubey drive here and there, but mostly I am looking for clean steel sounds.

What do you guys think?

Thanks!

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 22 Jun 2011 9:57 am

A tube guitar amp that's running warm and creamy at half volume and is loud enough un-miced to cut a club and a clean steel amp that's loud enough to cut a club un-miced are really two different animals. Anything you do is gonna be a compromise. Since you can't make a dirty amp clean with a pedal,you're gonna have to make a clean amp dirty with a pedal.If I was gonna try that with tubes and wanted a piggy-back rig,I'd go for a hundred watt amp like a Showman or a cut down Twin. A Bandmaster/Bassman head
and a sealed back cab would work for both instruments but I would worry about headroom for the steel at anything past a moderate volume.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 22 Jun 2011 10:17 am

Perhaps the Twin Reverb will do the job with the steel on the second (reverb) channel, but you will need to go with a Tube Screamer or other such OD unit into the first channel TURNED WELL DOWN in order for the guitar to shred properly at a modest volume.

I'm with Michael Johnstone in that the Bassman might work but only if your onstage levels are not too loud.

Pit Lenz · Post by **Pit Lenz** » 22 Jun 2011 10:29 am

What Michael said!
If 2/12s are what you`re after, I think a chopped twin is the way to go. If you`d be able to build a cabinet yourself, that`s another way to save a couple of bucks...
If or if not, you should definitely check out Rick Johnson`s website. He`s the "cab-master"

Michael Pierce · Post by **Michael Pierce** » 22 Jun 2011 1:15 pm

You might look into a Fender Bassman 100 head. I picked up a really nice one locally ('73 silverface) for about $400, which seems in the ballpark for these. 100 watts; extremely loud.

Gordon Hartin · Post by **Gordon Hartin** » 22 Jun 2011 3:51 pm

Have you looked into Ken Fox's amps, http://www.foxvintageamps.com/ his 100 watt twin his bassman are both under 50 lbs.

opps, just saw the price range...

Gordon

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 22 Jun 2011 4:22 pm

Out of curiosity once at home I ran my steel into my old white Bassman head and a JBL D130 with some Lexicon reverb. It sounded wonderful but I doubt it would be enough power for even a local club gig considering I'm running two Session 400's with K130's nearly wide open right now on my road gig. A Twin or Showman may be better if you must have a tube amp. You may be able to do a tube swap (to KT88's if I remember correctly) and get a lot more clean power, although a fan becomes an absolute must.

Tim Heidner · Post by **Tim Heidner** » 22 Jun 2011 4:39 pm

Didn't Tom Brumley play a Bassman?

Tommy Bannister · Post by **Tommy Bannister** » 22 Jun 2011 5:11 pm

PLAYED A PEVEY SESSION500 FOR FORTY YEARS PLUS HAD NO REGRETS AND NO TROUBLE EXCEPT THE WEIGHT,THATS WHY THE NASHVILLE 112'S AS CaME ABOUT
HAD A 15 INCH BLACK WIDOW 1501 IN MY SESSION 500 OUR LOUD LEAD GUITARIST SAID IT mADE HIS EARS BLEED WHEN I TURNED UP THE VOLUME
MADE MY DAY!!!!!
AS HE WAS A ROY BUCANNON and JEFF BECK FOLLOWER
HE HE HE
SLOWLY GOING DEAF
TOMMY UK

Robby Osenton · Post by **Robby Osenton** » 25 Jun 2011 7:23 am

I dont gig that often, and it is usually playing originals in more of an alt-country kind of thing with small guitar amps. Tweed deluxes, etc.

I really wanted a BF or a drip edge amp, and decided a cut twin was out of my budget.

I got a great deal on a 64 bandmaster, so I picked that up. It already had all the electrolytics replaced, so I didn't have to add that cost in.

I am trying to figure out now which speakers I should get, and I would like to upgrade the OT.

Allen makes a bassman one that fits the same mounting holes, but I have also heard of people putting in a Twin OT and running it at 8 ohms.

What would be the benefit of the twin over the bassman OT?

I know the bassman OT would put me at around 50 watts or so, would the twin one be more like 60?

Would it even make that much of a difference?

I could use this one too http://www.classictone.net/40-18000.html

thanks again guys!

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 25 Jun 2011 2:11 pm

A Showman/Twin is around 85 watts stock and many are right around 100 with a little tweakin. A Bandmaster is a great amp and I had a 64(which I bought new) and a dark brown Fender reverb(62?)unit thru which I played a 64 Fender Jaguar in surf bands and R&B dance bands thruout the 60s and that setup will cut a small/medium club real well for guitar. If I was gonna play steel thru a Bandmaster I'd use some outboard EQ to sculpt the mids a little and some reverb of course. I'm sure I'd still be wishin I was playing steel thru something else tho - especially if it was in a dance band. It's just hard to get any bigtime headroom with tubes - especially on C6.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 25 Jun 2011 3:15 pm

My blackface '65 Bassman sounded great but never had the clean juice for anything more than a VERY small casual gig, unless you're playing blues -- then, turn it to 11 and ROCK ON.

Otherwise you need something around 100W.

Of course, you can mic a Fender Champ if that's the sound you are going for, but you are going to be hard pressed to get anything clean and usable at typical club volume with less than 4x6L6s. I used the Bassman on several recording projects -- never was fond of the closed back cab -- too boomy for me -- so I used a Nashville 115 cab with a BW1501 and it sounded better to my ears.

Just not enough meat for my taste. A Twin is more like it, but is a hernia waiting to happen. I went for the Fox 5F8B amp -- it's a high power tweed Twin chassis from the late 50s and with a SICA 15" neo speaker weighs in under 45#. Best steel amp I've ever owned -- and I've owned Webb, Evans, Standel, most everything Peavey has made, and several Fenders. Of the Fenders the Vibrolux and Twin were my favorite. A Deluxe (or Bassman) is fine in the studio but wimps out when you're across the stage from an aggressive Tele-whacker.

Just my mileage -- yours may vary.

Someone asked -- I don't ever recall Brumley playing through a 2x12 Bassman -- I've seen him playing through two old Tweed Bassman amps, but that's a different animal from the BF Bassman.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 1 Jul 2011 10:10 am

Look for a Dual Shoman Reverb--comes in a head cab and already has the reverb. 100 watts, or the '77-'83 model is 135 watts rms. Dual showman is electronicly identical to a twin reverb, if you match year for year. The face plates and cabs are different. Set yourself up with an extension speaker or two, and your done. I bet you could get it done around $900.