MSA 20 string single neck!

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 12 Jan 2009 10:18 am

Does anyone know who owns the single neck 20 string MSA built for Julian Tharpe in the late 60's. I would love to have pictures of the top and bottom for my MSA memorabilia.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 13 Jan 2009 5:19 pm

Maurice, I would not know anything about that guitar, except that in the past pictures have been posted on this Forum.

I am assuming this is the guitar:

Maybe the picture will help locating it again.

My best regards to you and yours... J-D.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 14 Jan 2009 12:13 am

I believe that guitar was on display at Jim Palenscar's shop recently.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 14 Jan 2009 7:24 am

I have not seen that guitar.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 14 Jan 2009 7:39 am

My mistake. I confused it with the transparent (Plexiglass?) D-10 that was there for a while.

Terry Wood · Post by **Terry Wood** » 14 Jan 2009 8:23 am

Hi Reece,

Last I knew of a guy in Indiana or possibly Ohio owned it. I remember them posting a picture of it on the Steel Forum 4-5 years back.

Hope this helps!

GOD bless your Friend!

Terry

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 14 Jan 2009 11:02 am

I appreciate the posts. I received an email from the owner which included the picture J.D. posted in this thread, along with yet another picture. I did not receive a picture of the bottom side as hoped, but possibly it will be forthcoming.

I want to thank the owner for being so kind as to contact me. That guitar is truly a part of MSA history and one of a kind.

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 15 Jan 2009 10:57 am

Looking at the picture, I'm wondering whether the changer would have needed a larger diameter "axle" to handle 20 strings. Cross rods only bear the tension of a few pullers, but the changer bears all of it.

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 15 Jan 2009 11:00 am

Hey Reece,
show us a pic of the bottom,if you get it...Please.

Thanks Bill

Edited to say...Rich, it has support between each changer cam/finger, therefore little, or no need for additional support.

Joe McHam · Post by **Joe McHam** » 14 May 2011 3:57 am

I bought the guitar from you in 1968 Reece.. and played it about 7 years...

Jeff Garden · Post by **Jeff Garden** » 14 May 2011 6:57 am

Hey Joe, just out of curiosity, what size bar did you use when playing the S-20?

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 14 May 2011 8:04 am

Dave Kellogg here in Portland had it recently but sold it. You can find his email here under a post or two maybe even the thread in the classified where it was sold. I also have his number.

Larry Behm

Joe McHam · Post by **Joe McHam** » 14 May 2011 12:53 pm

Jeff back then I used a 3.5 X 7/8 stainless steel... Worked ok!!!

Jeff Garden · Post by **Jeff Garden** » 14 May 2011 1:26 pm

Thanks joe. I was wondering if you had some sort of X-tra long bar to tame that beast!

Derek DiLaura · Post by **Derek DiLaura** » 14 May 2011 2:52 pm

Reece,

I have been trying to find out the age, and anything else I can on a MSA Pedal Steel I inherited from an uncle several years ago. Serial #2C4867.....I don't play and think I'm going to sell it once I find out what it's worth.

Thanks,

Derek

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 15 May 2011 8:19 am

How is it tuned ? From the photo it looks like its a D10 with the two sets of strings moved next to each other.

Alfred Ewell · Post by **Alfred Ewell** » 16 May 2011 4:34 pm

Reece Anderson wrote:Does anyone know who owns the single neck 20 string MSA built for Julian Tharpe in the late 60's. I would love to have pictures of the top and bottom for my MSA memorabilia.

Hi Reece. I appreciate your putting me in touch with David Wright this winter for helpful ideas in restoring this wonder. The raises and lowers are all a little shy of being a half or whole step, - equally so for them all. I was trying to tune what various sources said was F6th on the far 10 strings and broke a couple keyheads. Home improvement, work and the Valentines cd on the fiddle have been impediments to getting her in shape. I'll take some underside pics when I get home, but here's a picture that won't be found anywhere else in the meantime.

Despite everything it sounds wonderful when I get behind there. That's what keeps me wanting to finish the restore!

These won't win any awards but here's the underside:

Here's http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=171987 the classified with pics.

Alfred Ewell · Post by **Alfred Ewell** » 12 Jun 2011 9:02 pm

I've thought more than a time or two whether it's possible or desirable to turn this into a true S20, instead of two sets of 10 strings? Maybe it would go beyond the range of human hearing to get that many octaves

- or else the step between each string would be too small to be useful... Currently it's F6 and E9 and it's cool to cross the two, but not that often useful enough (yet) to really harness the power of 20 strings. If U12 is universal would S20 be multi-dimensional? There wouldn't be many instances around. Anyway, I reckon the limit is how tight the treblest string can be taut.

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 13 Jun 2011 7:40 am

Multidimensional? be careful you don't fall into the tesseract (four dimension cube) and vanish.

A bigger concern than how tight a treble string can be tuned would behow large a bass string is usable. Using gauged rollers in the nut can only take you so far.

Also, a bar capable of covering all 20 strings would be hard to handle.

One possibility that you might consider...

The first 10-12 strings tuned in descending pitches, as is conventional. But then the remaining strings in ascending pitch on a different chord/key. That avoids placing a thin string next to a very thick string, which creates a physical barrier which isolates the "necks."

Having half the strings in "reverse order" would really derail old habits.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 13 Jun 2011 9:00 am

From one who plays the lute, I can tell you that having multiple strings causes confusion in co-ordinating the right and left hands, or you can end up plucking one string and fingering another. It's no co-incidence that the strings on a harp are color-coded. $:\$

Alfred Ewell · Post by **Alfred Ewell** » 13 Jun 2011 5:30 pm

Rich Peterson wrote: One possibility that you might consider...

The first 10-12 strings tuned in descending pitches, as is conventional. But then the remaining strings in ascending pitch on a different chord/key. That avoids placing a thin string next to a very thick string, which creates a physical barrier which isolates the "necks."

Having half the strings in "reverse order" would really derail old habits.

That sounds like a good idea. Currently the chromatic string in the E9 set is next to a 0.060 - in the F6 set - and it can be quite a rift! Playing "backwards" in F6 would be a new world, but where no man has gone before is probably an overstatement. I bet someone has done that already, even if for a different reason than having 20 strings.
But after all, why go to all the trouble to make a 20 string deck instead of 2 10's (or 12's) if they can't work together? Any unreasonable suggestions are welcome, and maybe a few reasonable ones!
Thanks for all the so far!

Alfred Ewell · Post by **Alfred Ewell** » 15 Feb 2012 1:05 pm

At last, found a post by Joe McHam on the copedent: "E9 on the first 8 strings and Julians 12 string E9/6 on the inside 12 strings"
on guestbook for Julian. Thanks, and I continue the restore. (emailed the quote to myself for safety

)
Now if I can find E9E6 somewhere

Ransom Beers · Post by **Ransom Beers** » 15 Feb 2012 1:26 pm

Auto harp comes to mind,could it possibly be tuned somewhat to one of those?I mean as far as range those things are not out of it.Then my head may be in the clouds.

Is that a gear shift I see mounted on the front?

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 15 Feb 2012 4:46 pm

Autoharps are tuned chromatioally, with a different string for every note. That being so, a 20-string steel would cover less than two octaves between the top and bottom strings. Also, because of the presence of every note at every bar position, you would have all sorts of dischords which you could only control by very carefully picking two or three strings at a time and damping all the others. It would be virtually unplayable.

The Steel Guitar Forum

MSA 20 string single neck!

MSA 20 string single neck!

20 string

Bar size

MSA Serial Number Help

Re: MSA 20 string single neck!