Intonation?
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
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- Location: New York, USA
Intonation?
Hello everyone! Here's my issue for the week!
GFI Ultra D-10 8 pedals, 5 knees.
We switched the E-neck over from the outside to the inside (personal preference) I think we did it correctly. I researched it and made sure I paid attention to slack and everything. Now, the problem seems to be intonation??? I have never heard of an issue with intonation on a steel. We tune everything perfectly with the tuner, then things just seem to sound sour, even though the strings and bends are perfectly in tune. To trouble shoot, I checked the tuning at the fifth fret and for sure the fifth and sixth strings are flat, being able to be "corrected" by cocking the bar at an angle... I read the article on here about Only Intonation. I have no idea what that stuff means! Can anyone help us out?
Joey and Michelle
GFI Ultra D-10 8 pedals, 5 knees.
We switched the E-neck over from the outside to the inside (personal preference) I think we did it correctly. I researched it and made sure I paid attention to slack and everything. Now, the problem seems to be intonation??? I have never heard of an issue with intonation on a steel. We tune everything perfectly with the tuner, then things just seem to sound sour, even though the strings and bends are perfectly in tune. To trouble shoot, I checked the tuning at the fifth fret and for sure the fifth and sixth strings are flat, being able to be "corrected" by cocking the bar at an angle... I read the article on here about Only Intonation. I have no idea what that stuff means! Can anyone help us out?
Joey and Michelle
- CrowBear Schmitt
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- Location: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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edited : Tuning out Cabinet drop " :
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=164485
Otherwise have you tried tuning by harmonics ?
the E9 tuning has 2 chords E & B for starters : no levers - no pedals
(as well as A w: pedals A & B engaged)
first tune your Es to 440 (or 442)WITH pedals A & B engaged
then release them & proceed :
lever E lowers Es a half
lever F raises Es a half
lever G raises F#s a whole
lever D lowers Eb a half
lever V lowers Bs a half
you will be using frets 5 - 7 - 12 - & 4 !
you can get a harmonic on the 4th fret - certainly not as easy as on frets 5,7 & 12
look for it, it's there
here we go :
Open/no pedals for starters - pedals & levers will follow
using harmonics on each :
on left reference tone / on right string to tune
E : string 8 fret 5 / string 4 fret 12
B : string 10 fret 5 / string 5 fret 12
F# : string 5 fret 7 / String 1 fret 12 - string
F# : string 1 fret 12 / string 7 fret 5
G# : string 8 fret 4 ( yep 4) / string 6 fret 5
G# : string 4 ( yep 4 ) / string 3 fret 5
Eb : string 5 fret 4 / string 2 fret 5
E : string 8 w: A&B fret 5 / string 6 w: A&B fret 7
A : string 6 w: A&B fret 5 / string 3 w: A&B fret 12
A : string 6 w: A&B fret 12 / string 9 fret 7
C# : string 5 w: A&B fret 12 / string 10 w: A&B fret 5
C# : string 6 w: B&C fret 4 / string 4 w: B&C fret 7
C# : string 6 w: B&C fret 4 / string 5 w: B&C fret 5
Eb : string 2 fret 12 / string 4 w lever E fret 12
Eb : string 2 fret 12 / string 8 w: lever E fret 5
B(G# lever): string 5 fret 5 / string 7 w: lever G fret 4
G# : string 3 fret 12 / string 1 w: lever G fret 12
F : string 5 w: A&B fret 4 / string 4 w: lever F fret 5
F : string 4 w: lever F fret 12 / string 8 w: lever F fret 5
Bb : string 7 fret 4 / string 5 w: lever V fret 5
Bb : string 5 w: lever V fret 12 / string 10 w: lever V fret 5
D : string 9 fret 5 / string 2 w: lever D fret 12
---------------------------------------------------
when tuning strings 1(F#) - 2(Eb)- 7(F#) note that the root/reference is B ......NOT... E
F# being the fifth & Eb being the third of B :
the fifth of B gets the same treatment/value as the fifth of E
the third of B gets the same treatment/value as the third of E
last but not least (the plot sickens lol)
when tuning F# on string 4 w: pedal C : F# is the root tone since the ref is an F# minor chord
here again it will get it's own treatment/value
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=164485
Otherwise have you tried tuning by harmonics ?
the E9 tuning has 2 chords E & B for starters : no levers - no pedals
(as well as A w: pedals A & B engaged)
first tune your Es to 440 (or 442)WITH pedals A & B engaged
then release them & proceed :
lever E lowers Es a half
lever F raises Es a half
lever G raises F#s a whole
lever D lowers Eb a half
lever V lowers Bs a half
you will be using frets 5 - 7 - 12 - & 4 !
you can get a harmonic on the 4th fret - certainly not as easy as on frets 5,7 & 12
look for it, it's there
here we go :
Open/no pedals for starters - pedals & levers will follow
using harmonics on each :
on left reference tone / on right string to tune
E : string 8 fret 5 / string 4 fret 12
B : string 10 fret 5 / string 5 fret 12
F# : string 5 fret 7 / String 1 fret 12 - string
F# : string 1 fret 12 / string 7 fret 5
G# : string 8 fret 4 ( yep 4) / string 6 fret 5
G# : string 4 ( yep 4 ) / string 3 fret 5
Eb : string 5 fret 4 / string 2 fret 5
E : string 8 w: A&B fret 5 / string 6 w: A&B fret 7
A : string 6 w: A&B fret 5 / string 3 w: A&B fret 12
A : string 6 w: A&B fret 12 / string 9 fret 7
C# : string 5 w: A&B fret 12 / string 10 w: A&B fret 5
C# : string 6 w: B&C fret 4 / string 4 w: B&C fret 7
C# : string 6 w: B&C fret 4 / string 5 w: B&C fret 5
Eb : string 2 fret 12 / string 4 w lever E fret 12
Eb : string 2 fret 12 / string 8 w: lever E fret 5
B(G# lever): string 5 fret 5 / string 7 w: lever G fret 4
G# : string 3 fret 12 / string 1 w: lever G fret 12
F : string 5 w: A&B fret 4 / string 4 w: lever F fret 5
F : string 4 w: lever F fret 12 / string 8 w: lever F fret 5
Bb : string 7 fret 4 / string 5 w: lever V fret 5
Bb : string 5 w: lever V fret 12 / string 10 w: lever V fret 5
D : string 9 fret 5 / string 2 w: lever D fret 12
---------------------------------------------------
when tuning strings 1(F#) - 2(Eb)- 7(F#) note that the root/reference is B ......NOT... E
F# being the fifth & Eb being the third of B :
the fifth of B gets the same treatment/value as the fifth of E
the third of B gets the same treatment/value as the third of E
last but not least (the plot sickens lol)
when tuning F# on string 4 w: pedal C : F# is the root tone since the ref is an F# minor chord
here again it will get it's own treatment/value
Last edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 13 Mar 2011 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Lee Baucum
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- richard burton
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Some GFI's have a Bar the strings rest on and glide over, instead of rollers. If it is placed at any small degree of angle, other than perpindicular it could create an intonation variance. Measure from changer to center of string rest bar on top and bott. Check for being the same.Also the changer could be moved or turned just a small amount from the original placement. and needs adjusted.If one or the other is turned a small amount this could have an effect.
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I would first suspect bad, old or poor quality strings. I have experienced a string going bad at the blink of an eye. The farther up the neck one places the bar, the flatter the tuning of an individual string and/or more pronounced it becomes is the sign.
This also occurs when a string has been loosened and re-used instead of replaced.
This also occurs when a string has been loosened and re-used instead of replaced.
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- Posts: 44
- Joined: 27 Sep 2009 6:12 pm
- Location: New Orleans,Louisiana, USA
Intonation
I have to agree with Tommy. It would have to be in the string itself if it was In tune in one place on the neck and not in tune further up the neck. And it probably is only one of the two strings but I don't exactly know how you would tell which one. Hope this is it.
Jody
Jody
Fessenden D10
Emmons re-issue push-pull D10 d10
Sierra d10
Sierra artist series s10
Emmons re-issue push-pull D10 d10
Sierra d10
Sierra artist series s10
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- Location: Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA
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Fixed!
THANK YOU Crowbear and Richard (and Bob Brewer who helped us out on the phone!) You two were correct. Not something mechanical and certainly not strings, nor human error! It was good 'ol cabinet drop. Unbelievably, in the two years Joey has played the Fender 1000, we never experienced these other tunings - Emmons, Newman, etc... Newman tuning brought this thing in perfectly... Now the overtones are coming through beautifully!
Michelle and Joey
Michelle and Joey
- Jack Stoner
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- Location: Kansas City, MO
Bruce Bouton, in his Video, talks about tuning and after you tune it open he says to check the tuning up the neck at several frets, such as at the 8th and 15th frets as it may be out and to retune it to be in tune up the neck.
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings (all for sale as package)
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit