Intonation?

[Michelle Durham]

Hello everyone! Here's my issue for the week!
GFI Ultra D-10 8 pedals, 5 knees.
We switched the E-neck over from the outside to the inside (personal preference) I think we did it correctly. I researched it and made sure I paid attention to slack and everything. Now, the problem seems to be intonation??? I have never heard of an issue with intonation on a steel. We tune everything perfectly with the tuner, then things just seem to sound sour, even though the strings and bends are perfectly in tune. To trouble shoot, I checked the tuning at the fifth fret and for sure the fifth and sixth strings are flat, being able to be "corrected" by cocking the bar at an angle... I read the article on here about Only Intonation. I have no idea what that stuff means! Can anyone help us out?
Joey and Michelle

[Georg Sørtun]

I have never heard of an issue with intonation on a steel.

Quite common, but in most cases it is the player's fault (I have heard ).

I checked the tuning at the fifth fret and for sure the fifth and sixth strings are flat, being able to be "corrected" by cocking the bar at an angle... I read the article on here about Only Intonation. I have no idea what that stuff means!

First: it is known as the Just Intonation prinsiples, and the audio-examples in the Wikipedia page should help clear up what it means.

Now, did the intonation problem arise after you changed neck, and not before? If so you have a mechanical problem. Maybe you did something wrong after all, or your GFI isn't stable enough or not equally stable for both necks.

I am not impressed by the tuning-stability of my own GFI (Sd10), but it isn't much harder to play in tune up the neck than my other steels. Some slight variations in exact bar-position, -pressure and -angle (both horizontal and vertical) is necessary on all PSG if we want all chords to sound beat-free - which is what Just Intonation is all about.

[CrowBear Schmitt]

edited : Tuning out Cabinet drop " :

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=164485

Otherwise have you tried tuning by harmonics ?

the E9 tuning has 2 chords E & B for starters : no levers - no pedals
(as well as A w: pedals A & B engaged)

first tune your Es to 440 (or 442)WITH pedals A & B engaged
then release them & proceed :

lever E lowers Es a half
lever F raises Es a half
lever G raises F#s a whole
lever D lowers Eb a half
lever V lowers Bs a half

you will be using frets 5 - 7 - 12 - & 4 !
you can get a harmonic on the 4th fret - certainly not as easy as on frets 5,7 & 12
look for it, it's there

here we go :

Open/no pedals for starters - pedals & levers will follow
using harmonics on each :
on left reference tone / on right string to tune

E : string 8 fret 5 / string 4 fret 12

B : string 10 fret 5 / string 5 fret 12

F# : string 5 fret 7 / String 1 fret 12 - string
F# : string 1 fret 12 / string 7 fret 5

G# : string 8 fret 4 ( yep 4) / string 6 fret 5
G# : string 4 ( yep 4 ) / string 3 fret 5

Eb : string 5 fret 4 / string 2 fret 5

E : string 8 w: A&B fret 5 / string 6 w: A&B fret 7

A : string 6 w: A&B fret 5 / string 3 w: A&B fret 12
A : string 6 w: A&B fret 12 / string 9 fret 7

C# : string 5 w: A&B fret 12 / string 10 w: A&B fret 5
C# : string 6 w: B&C fret 4 / string 4 w: B&C fret 7
C# : string 6 w: B&C fret 4 / string 5 w: B&C fret 5

Eb : string 2 fret 12 / string 4 w lever E fret 12
Eb : string 2 fret 12 / string 8 w: lever E fret 5

B(G# lever): string 5 fret 5 / string 7 w: lever G fret 4
G# : string 3 fret 12 / string 1 w: lever G fret 12

F : string 5 w: A&B fret 4 / string 4 w: lever F fret 5
F : string 4 w: lever F fret 12 / string 8 w: lever F fret 5

Bb : string 7 fret 4 / string 5 w: lever V fret 5
Bb : string 5 w: lever V fret 12 / string 10 w: lever V fret 5

D : string 9 fret 5 / string 2 w: lever D fret 12

---------------------------------------------------

when tuning strings 1(F#) - 2(Eb)- 7(F#) note that the root/reference is B ......NOT... E
F# being the fifth & Eb being the third of B :
the fifth of B gets the same treatment/value as the fifth of E
the third of B gets the same treatment/value as the third of E
last but not least (the plot sickens lol)
when tuning F# on string 4 w: pedal C : F# is the root tone since the ref is an F# minor chord
here again it will get it's own treatment/value

[Lee Baucum]

So, are you thinking the fret lines may be placed in the wrong location...for just those two strings?

[richard burton]

It sounds like good ole cabinet drop to me.

Plug the steel into a tuner, and observe the amount of drop in the sixth string when you raise the fifth string with the 'A' pedal.

Tell us what the reading is

[Bob Cox]

Some GFI's have a Bar the strings rest on and glide over, instead of rollers. If it is placed at any small degree of angle, other than perpindicular it could create an intonation variance. Measure from changer to center of string rest bar on top and bott. Check for being the same.Also the changer could be moved or turned just a small amount from the original placement. and needs adjusted.If one or the other is turned a small amount this could have an effect.

[Tommy White]

I would first suspect bad, old or poor quality strings. I have experienced a string going bad at the blink of an eye. The farther up the neck one places the bar, the flatter the tuning of an individual string and/or more pronounced it becomes is the sign.
This also occurs when a string has been loosened and re-used instead of replaced.

[Arthur Dickerson]

I have to agree with Tommy. It would have to be in the string itself if it was In tune in one place on the neck and not in tune further up the neck. And it probably is only one of the two strings but I don't exactly know how you would tell which one. Hope this is it.
Jody

[Dan Galysh]

What Tommy said. I had to replace an 8th string today that was driving me up the wall!

[Michelle Durham]

THANK YOU Crowbear and Richard (and Bob Brewer who helped us out on the phone!) You two were correct. Not something mechanical and certainly not strings, nor human error! It was good 'ol cabinet drop. Unbelievably, in the two years Joey has played the Fender 1000, we never experienced these other tunings - Emmons, Newman, etc... Newman tuning brought this thing in perfectly... Now the overtones are coming through beautifully!
Michelle and Joey

[Jack Stoner]

Bruce Bouton, in his Video, talks about tuning and after you tune it open he says to check the tuning up the neck at several frets, such as at the 8th and 15th frets as it may be out and to retune it to be in tune up the neck.