PICS added... (Nut fell of – how to glue back on?)

[Hans Henrik Rasmussen]

Hi all,

During a string change on my “converted to lap slide” Gibson FJN the nut fell off. Do I glue it on like a regular nut with just a couple of dots of super glue/wood glue or is more called for when it is a lap slide nut? I remember the repair guy that glued it on used quite a good amount of glue but only on the side, against the fretboard, with nothing on the bottom. So I'd also like to ask where I should use the glue: on the side, on the bottom or both?

In addition there was a lot of old glue down there and I carefully sanded most of it out. However, when I place the nut in the slot it doesn't seem to fit 100% as in when I hold it up in front of a lamp I can see a little light between the nut and the fretboard. Do you think that will be a problem?

Thanks for your help (once again),
Hans

[Raymond Jones]

Crazy glue or super glue does "not " fill a void. I would use a two part epoxy (5 minute type). This will allow the best sound transfer into the instrument.

[Mike D]

I don't use but a couple small dots of CA to glue on the nut. String tension and a tight fit holds them on and when and if you want them off the last thing you want is them taking wood with them.
If there is a small gap the best thing is to make a new nut but if you don't want to do that use a couple layers of aluminum foil to take it up. Trim it flush after it's installed and you'll never know it's there.

[Jason Hull]

Do not use epoxy. Make sure the fit is tight and use a small amount of super-glue on the face of the nut (not the bottom). Any shimming should be done under the nut (not in the string slots). "Dry" fitting, under string tension, will assure the correct nut height.

[Bill Hatcher]

always use something that will allow a repair later on or whatever the situation might be that you would need to remove it. heat is the standard way to loosen up the glue on a nut. use some franklin titebond.

NEVER use epoxy. and if you use superglue, just a very very small dot of it.

[HowardR]

mine fell of long ago.....

[Hans Henrik Rasmussen]

Do not use epoxy. Make sure the fit is tight and use a small amount of super-glue on the face of the nut (not the bottom). Any shimming should be done under the nut (not in the string slots). "Dry" fitting, under string tension, will assure the correct nut height.

Ok. The fit is pretty good but I think there may be some glue residue that keeps it from pressing 100 % against the fretboard edge. I'll see what I can do.

How much Titebond should I put on there?

Thanks for the comments everyone - very appreciated!
Hans

[Bill Hatcher]

Do not use epoxy. Make sure the fit is tight and use a small amount of super-glue on the face of the nut (not the bottom). Any shimming should be done under the nut (not in the string slots). "Dry" fitting, under string tension, will assure the correct nut height.

Ok. The fit is pretty good but I think there may be some glue residue that keeps it from pressing 100 % against the fretboard edge. I'll see what I can do.

How much Titebond should I put on there?

Thanks for the comments everyone - very appreciated!
Hans

the least amount that will do the job

[Steve Ahola]

Just wondering- did you raise the nut or saddle? The FJN sounds like a good candidate for lap playing because of the 2" spacing at the nut.

Although probably not applicable here, the 1947 Gibson Century 6 had a pin in the bottom of the steel nut which went into a small hole in the bottom of the nut slot to keep it from sliding back and forth. If I was to put in a taller nut I might do something like that just to keep it seated securely.

Steve Ahola

P.S. Is there a good source for bone for lap steel nuts and bridges? I used to get some huge blanks from a luthier I knew, much larger than the ones that Stew-Mac sells.

[Hans Henrik Rasmussen]

Just wondering- did you raise the nut or saddle? The FJN sounds like a good candidate for lap playing because of the 2" spacing at the nut.

Hi Steve,

The nut is "raised" as in it's a typical big, lap slide nut . The saddle is just straight across at its original highest point. And yes, the 2" width is really nice.

Thanks,
Hans

[Hans Henrik Rasmussen]

So this is the "dry run" - how do you guys think it looks? (it seems the fretboard is angled a little back from the nut):














Best,
Hans

[Tom Pettingill]

It looks to me that either the nut slot is not square with the fretboard and or the bottom of the nut is off.
I took your side profile closeup pic, blew it up a bit and added the cross hairs for reference.

.

[John Billings]

I agree with Tom! Do you have, or know anyone who has a good machinist's square? The smaller the better! As these have a carbon steel blade, you could probably use the square as scraper to true up the bottom of the nut.
http://www.tools-plus.com/general-270-6.html

[Hans Henrik Rasmussen]

It looks to me that either the nut slot is not square with the fretboard and or the bottom of the nut is off.

Yes, Tom! Great with the cross hairs. It seems it was the nut slot that wasn't square with the nut. I found a little more glue to remove and now the "gap of light" between the nut and the fretboard is a rectangle, rather than a triangle with the point down. What do I do from here?

Thanks,
Hans

[Tom Pettingill]

If its not seating full forward to the fretboard, there may still be a little residue in the inside bottom corner of the slot.

.

[Damon Wack]

It also appears your slots are pretty deep, they should only be half the diameter of the string. This happens over time from the sawing action of changing and tuning strings, or perhaps lack of knowledge of the builder. I would get a new nut from Beard (the site is called "Resophonic Outfitters"). If you don't want to slot it, they will sell you a pre-slotted one. You may have to sand it some to fit. Clean the slot well, but be careful not to take away wood, just glue residue.

[Hans Henrik Rasmussen]

If its not seating full forward to the fretboard, there may still be a little residue in the inside bottom corner of the slot.

Thanks, Tom. I think perhaps there was a little left. I removed it and now I can hold the nut perfectly in place. However, when I put tension on the strings it seems to be "forced back" so that the gap is there once again. It seems the nut slot is simple too big for the nut now that the glue remains are gone. I think I'll have to throw in the towel on this one and take it to a repair guy. Thank you very much for the help, though.

And Damon, great with the Beard tip. I didn't know that they sold pre-slottet nuts. I've never heard the thing about the nut slots before - is it limiting for the sound if they are deeper than half the diameter of the string or what is the catch?

Thanks,
Hans

[Allan Munro]

...P.S. Is there a good source for bone for lap steel nuts and bridges?...

I use 'dog bones' from the local pet store. Pick yer bone with care (can I say that on here?) and you will get a few pieces from each one.

[Jason Hull]

I've never heard the thing about the nut slots before - is it limiting for the sound if they are deeper than half the diameter of the string or what is the catch?

Slots that are too deep run the risk of pinching the strings and causing tuning problems. A slot depth of half the diameter is the absolute minimum that will hold the string, and can't pinch it. Unwound strings can have a deeper slot; it's near impossible to create a slot that's half the thickness of a, for example, .010" string. Unfortunately unwound strings get pinched easily, so the slot must be shaped carefully; just deep enough to hold the string, but not pinching. If you hear a "pinging" sound while you're tuning up, then you have a pinched string; the string is catching and releasing as you change the tension.

[Steve Ahola]

While on the subject of nut slots for strings it is important that the slot is a little bit higher on the fretboard side. If the nut slot is perfectly level (or raised up on the keyhead side) the open strings can sound a bit like a sitar.

If you think that the slot in the neck for the nut is too wide, you might try shimming it up on the side opposite the fretboard. You might try one or two layers of the plastic on the everpresent "clamshell" packing which needs a knife or scissors to open. You know, the stuff they use to reduce shoplifting...

Steve Ahola

[Damon Wack]

The string, when it vibrates, vibrates in a circular pattern and not just side to side or up and down. If you picture the string moving in that way right against the edge of the slot, you can see how it might get "pinched" if the slot edges are to tight, and this can be a cause of buzzing. Tim Scheerhorn actually uses wound strings to cut the string slots for his guitars. He will mark the slot positions, use a small file or saw to indent the bone slightly, but cut the slot itself with a string of the correct diameter. He uses a wound .020 for the flat wound string slots, but on a dobro these are generally .018 for the second and .016 or .017 for the first. He will rock the string side to side slightly to widen the edges. A little puff of bone dust will happen when he hits the halfway point of the slot, I've watched him do this. No need to measure depth, it's very quick, probably takes him less than ten or fifteen minutes for the whole procedure.

You will have to use a nut slotting file for steel guitars with the lighter diameter strings, but the same thing can be done with the file, just don't overdo it. Saws and files cut very quickly. You can have a do-over by filling in the slot with bone dust and CA, as a matter of fact you could probably do that with the nut you have, and re-cut the slots, if you wanted to.