Suggestions for an extra pedal on C6th?

[Eric Philippsen]

I picked up an S10 push-pull. It's an early 70's with 6+1. I'm going to convert this to a C6th setup with a standard copedant......except for that added pedal.

I don't have a clue what change to put on that extra pedal. Suggestions? Please? Thanx.

[Steve Hitsman]

I lower 2 and raise 6 on a lever (opposite of pedal 6). I use it a lot.

[Herb Steiner]

There are some fairly comon changes after the standard 5+1 setup. I would recommend getting three more knee levers for that guitar.

These four levers would raise and lower strings 3 (C-C# and C-B) and 4 (A-Bb and A-Ab). It's pretty necessary to have these on levers, IMHO.

However, for your 6th pedal you could:

1. Lower strings 9 and 10 as per your "boo-wah" (I hate that term), but don't raise s.7. This gives you a full Am7 on s.10 thru s.2. Buddy Emmons told me about this years ago and it's his 9th pedal on the Blade. I have it on my 9/8 LeGrande.

2. Have a pedal that only raises s.10 to D, (thanks to Gary Carpenter for this one) which yields a very cool Dm7 chord in the bass and a Dm11 chord in the middle and top strings.

3. Have the alternate F9th pedal, as previously mentioned.

4. Lower s.5 a whole tone (G-F)

5. Raise s.7 a whole tone (C-D)

Just a few possible ideas, depending on how you want to sing your own personal song.

[Ryan Barwin]

I'd get rid of the standard 4th pedal...there's other changes that are more important, IMO. Here's what I'd do:

P1: raise strings 3 and 7 from C to C#
P2: standard P5
P3: standard P6
P4: standard P7
P5: standard P8
P6: raise strings 4 and 8 from A to Bb
KL: lower string 3 from C to B

It'll take two feet for some things (P1 and P5, P3 and P6, P1 and P6, P2 and P6, P2 and P4, etc.) but this setup is probably the easiest way to do it.

[John Poston]

A lot of this really depends on the type and style of music you do or hope to do.

Two things that have already been suggested which I immediately thought of as well when I saw your post were the 'reverse 6' pedal that Steve suggested (which I have and utilize fairly often) and raising both Cs to C# (which I do not have but feel often like I could use it).

Another option is raising both Es to F. With a 6 and 'reverse 6' you basically have those changes on there, but I feel often that I would like them both together for some things.

Also, some people (including me) can deal with losing the standard 4 pedal to get something else, like Ryan suggested. If you're new to C6, I would put it on there and play around with it for a few months before making that decision, though.

[John Poston]

Herb, lowering string 5 to F seems really nice. I've only seen people raising 6 to F. Have you mainly used it for chordal stuff, the Maj7 (instead of 9th when raising E to F) and the fuller Dom7 with the 6 pedal, or more for scale/lick stuff?

[Richard Sinkler]

I also lower string 5 (G) to F on the pedal to the right of pedal 6 (I have the pedal 7 changes on my RKR). I also raise the first string D to D# on this pedal. It combines nicely with pedal 6 to get rid of the 9th tone in the middle and give a root tone there that is missing. The first string gives me a flat 7th tone on top. It does other things, but this is what I mainly use it for.

[Edward Meisse]

There are some fairly comon changes after the standard 5+1 setup. I would recommend getting three more knee levers for that guitar.

These four levers would raise and lower strings 3 (C-C# and C-B) and 4 (A-Bb and A-Ab). It's pretty necessary to have these on levers, IMHO.

However, for your 6th pedal you could:

1. Lower strings 9 and 10 as per your "boo-wah" (I hate that term), but don't raise s.7. This gives you a full Am7 on s.10 thru s.2. Buddy Emmons told me about this years ago and it's his 9th pedal on the Blade. I have it on my 9/8 LeGrande.

2. Have a pedal that only raises s.10 to D, (thanks to Gary Carpenter for this one) which yields a very cool Dm7 chord in the bass and a Dm11 chord in the middle and top strings.

3. Have the alternate F9th pedal, as previously mentioned.

4. Lower s.5 a whole tone (G-F)

5. Raise s.7 a whole tone (C-D)

Just a few possible ideas, depending on how you want to sing your own personal song.

I will second the suggestion for the knee levers. I have a 5th knee lever that lowers the G string to F. But I don't think it'd work that well on your extra pedal.

[John Bechtel]

__C6:_P1_P2_P3_P4_P5_P6_LL_LR_RL_RR
_1.D______________D#_______________
_2.E________F______________________
_3.C___________D______________B__C#
_4.A__B________B________Ab_Bb______
_5.G_____F#________________________
_6.E________Eb_______F_____________
_7.C______________C#_____________C#
_8.A__B____________________________
_9.F_____F#_______E________________
10.C_____D________A________________

[Arthur Dickerson]

I have a push pull emmons reissue that has a vertical lever which will pull my low e up to f. The great part is ( i don't know why it does this) when I press my P6 which normally lowers the e to eflat, it has no effect on my low e string and the f stays an f while the high e goes up to f. So the vertical by itself gives me an f maj 7 with an added 9 and the vertical lever with my P6 at the same time gives me f's on the top and bottom , an f major chord (with the added 9). The reason I'm telling y'all about it is---I don't have a clue as to why I am able to do that. I think it must have something to do with being a push pull guitar because I have tried to do this with my all pull Sierra and I can't. I can fix the vertical to raise the low e up to f with no problem and as long as I am only pressing that vertical lever I have an fmaj7.
If I press the vertical and then add P6 then my high e goes up to f but my low f goes flat. I guess I could do l;ike above and get some more hardware and make the vertical raise both E's. But I still don'y know why I can do it like I do on the pushpull Emmons.
If any body can explain this in a way I could understand it I would love to try get my head around this.

Thanks

Jody

[Clete Ritta]

...C6th setup with a standard copedant...

Standard... a refreshing term for me as E9 has so many dizzying variations.
Assuming your one (1) lever lowers 3C to B, C6 has a standard!

If 4 and 8 whole tone (A to B) raise on pedal 4 is a standard,
why is the change mostly abandoned in modern setups?

My Carter D10 has 4 E9 pedals (Franklin P0), and 4 C6 pedals without this change.
My dabbling in the Uni 12 E9/B6 was indeed inspiring, but maybe I havent studied the F®anklin pedal enough yet (or C6 even).

I havent played a 10 string C6 tuning with standard 5 pedals yet.
So, Why is P4 not the alligators teeth on C6 anymore?

Clete

[John Bechtel]

On my PSG's, I learned a lot of Jerry Byrd's 7str. C-dia. tuning using only strings 2,3,4,5,6 plus Pedal #9, Raising Str. #6 from (E) to (F) and RKL, Lowering Str. #3 from (C) to (B). The 7 str. tuning is: Lo to Hi E~[F]~G~A~~C~E Plus the fact that RKL alone creates a C Maj7 chord and P6 (9) alone creates an F Maj.7+6 & 9.