A JERRY BYRD question.................

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 17 Dec 2010 2:16 pm

If JERRY BYRD actually recorded 'STEELIN' the BLUES' during his early, early recording history, (during the early 1950's) and if he did so on his favorite little six string Ric with ONE VOLUME control only........ and that being that low profile, flat, hexagon knob.......

How in the world did he do the Wah-wah affect in the bridge since it had no TONE CONTROL? His foot pedal also was a volume control only.

Just tho't some of you historians might have the answer to this puzzling question.

Allen Kentfield · Post by **Allen Kentfield** » 25 Dec 2010 3:32 pm

How about "Long Gone Daddy", and several other Hank Williams' (La. Hayride era) tunes? (Recorded about 1947.) Even if they were before "Steelin' the Blues" they definitely had some wa-wa licks in the steel ride. There had to be a tone pot somewhere in that equation.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 25 Dec 2010 10:36 pm

Maybe the volume pedal?. Jody.

Delbert Barker Sr · Post by **Delbert Barker Sr** » 26 Dec 2010 4:30 pm

When I was young fellow I along with my cousin would go to Cicinnati early in the morning to radio station WLW where Jerry, Louis Innis, Red ? and I think the fiddlw player was Tommy Jackson were doing early morning radio shows. Jerry was playing a small black Rickenbacker bakelite and it had the tone control on it.
I had the good fortune to see him play and he did not have a foot control at that time that I saw. He did use the tone control for some of the songs that he played. He was my favorite steel player and I tried to see him when I could.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 26 Dec 2010 4:35 pm

These days we would suspect that they recorded the steel guitar on a separate track, and then introduced the effect during the mixdown, but, of course, in those days, they were lucky if they had more than two tracks to play with, so they didn't have the luxury of fooling around with the recording after the artists had gone home; they had to get it right, with whatever effects they wanted, first time, or record several takes and pick the best.

(In other words, I don't know how they did it.)

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 26 Dec 2010 4:41 pm

Was that per chance "RED KIRK"?

Jerry recorded a lot of sides with him back in those days.

Dave Mayes · Post by **Dave Mayes** » 26 Dec 2010 7:06 pm

Ray...
What makes you think Jerry played a volume control only steel at some point? I've never seen a photo of Jerry with a steel with less than two control knobs ( o.k....one exception). Let's see some proof! Your query has two "if"s in it's context. Is this a trick question?

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 26 Dec 2010 8:23 pm

Jerry Byrd's initial six string Ric, the one that was originally installed in Nashville's Country Music Hall O'Fame DOES in fact, have two knobs, one being a tone control. PROOF of this can be observed on Jerry's Photo's page, of the JERRY BYRD - FAN CLUB.

During the early 1950's, JERRY BYRD upgraded to a seven string Ric, again with two knobs, on opposite sides of the body. Experiencing pickup difficulties, he tossed aside this guitar and started playing a 'Panda' seven string with two knobs on the audience side. This unit was ultimately replaced with his early 1952-53 business project related to the Trot-More with two knobs.

In one of the photo's on the photo page, it appears that JERRY might very well have installed a raised tone control knob/pot, the one nearest his body.

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 26 Dec 2010 9:45 pm

Ray as i remember it i saw Hank Williams in 1949 and again in 1950. Don Helms was playing steel. I remember before that Hanks I'm so lonsmome i could cry which had a tone control on the steel which i think JB played. Strange i remember that that far back but in a way it was like yesterday. I even remember the joke Hank told on Jerry Rivers.
I got to talk with Hank in a music store the afternoon before the show.Tracy

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 26 Dec 2010 11:12 pm

Delbert Barker:

God bless you for those great records you recorded over 50 years ago.

Jug Band Jump and No Good Robin Hood are in regular rotation around here.

Being near Cincinnati--did you ever record with Jerry or Louis Innis or Roy Lanham or any of those King studio characters?

Here's Delbert in his heyday.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 27 Dec 2010 11:12 am

Delbert Barker Sr wrote:When I was a young fellow he was my favorite steel player and I tried to see him when I could.

With Tracy's runnin' up close!
Please share more.

Mitch, could you post those two tunes?

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 27 Dec 2010 5:14 pm

Tracy Sheehan wrote:...I got to talk with Hank in a music store the afternoon before the show.

...we're in the presence of royalty.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 27 Dec 2010 6:49 pm

What is this? Yet another manufactured false premise for a Forum thread? First you give us a false premise, saying that Jerry had only one knob, and ask how the heck could he do something with only one knob... and then you answer it yourself by saying, 'Fooled ya; he really had two knobs'. WTF? Are you just looking for something to say about Jerry Byrd or what? Is there nothing legitimate to say about your dear Jerry that you have to make stuff up like this? Second time in two days...

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 27 Dec 2010 7:51 pm

I'll be the first to recognize that I'm not nor will I likely ever be, as perfect and flawless as yourself.

I made a human error in the initial question put forth in this thread. I must aplogize for having done so. It was an accident........I have no choice but to associate it with my growing elderly.

I realized after the post that the guitar in the Country Music Hall of fame did have two knobs. My error!!!!

I started by relating to the dates that Jerry used the original six stringer and my first Ric, which indeed has but one knob. I subsequently visited the Hall of Fame photo and realized that I was in error and that Jerry could easily have had a guitar with two knobs at that point in time. NEVER did I infer that "I fooled you!"

I'm sorry to each and everyone of you that my error or oversight upset as much as it did Mr.Cohen. There is no excuse for having made this greivious error.
I offer my apologies to each of you. And to you Mr. Cohen, I'd suggest you avoid reading any posts bearing my name. It would be worthwhile favor to us both.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 27 Dec 2010 7:56 pm

Sorry if I was a little irritable. I had just finished reading a stupid thread about how "rock drummers pounding away with sticks" are not required for C&W music, when no one had ever suggested that they were...

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Dec 2010 10:51 pm

I always assumed that Jerry Byrd had a tone control on his guitars. After all, you can hear him using it.

Delbert Barker Sr · Post by **Delbert Barker Sr** » 28 Dec 2010 8:27 am

Ref: Jerry Byrd:
In the late forties and early fifties, Jerry visited a man by the name of Aleka Herring in Middletown, Ohio. Aleka played a lot of Hawaiin music and I was told by the people that was playing with Aleka that Jerry got a lot of his Hawaiian tunes fromm Aleka.
I never recorded with Jerry but, Louis Innis was my producer and A&R man for King Records when I recorded for them.
I knew Roy Lanham when he was in cincinnati before he went to california and started working with the Sons Of The Pioneers. I would see Roy and Glenn Hughs together quit often in various places in early fifies.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 28 Dec 2010 11:53 am

I'd not heard this bit of Jerry's history, is there more?

BTW, the more probable spelling is Alika, as the Hawaiian I generally sounds like E.

Jerry Hedge · Post by **Jerry Hedge** » 29 Dec 2010 6:44 pm

Mr. Barker could that person you recall as "Red" been Zeke Turner? I know that Zeke was playing with Jerry Byrd around that time. I just played at the 62th anniversary of the recording of Hank Williams "Lovesick Blues" at the site of the Herzog Studio where the song was recorded, in Cincinnati. I know that Jerry and Zeke were playing together on that recording. I'm glad you mentioned Glenn Hughes. From the late 50's untill the time he died Mr. Hughes had a music store in Cincinnati. I worked on and off for that store for 28 Years. He would tell me stories of people like Roy Latham, Merle Travis, Chester (Chet)Atkins,etc. He gave me a backround in how important Cincinnati was in the history of Country Music.

Delbert Barker Sr · Post by **Delbert Barker Sr** » 30 Dec 2010 10:54 am

Mr. Hedge;
The person I refered to that played with Jerry In the studio was a bass player and there were only four of them. I knew of Zeke and he was not there when I was there. Zeke played hte Midwestern Hayride about the same time I was playing the Midday Merry Go Round in Cincinnati, but I never met Zeke

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 30 Dec 2010 11:35 am

Regarding the bass player to whom you referred:

Could it have been one of these fine gentlemen?
Barefoot Brownie Reynolds, Charles Green, RED TURNER, or the friend/relative to Jethro Burns that played snare dum thingie hooked onto his doghouse bass and wa featured on Jerry Byrd's "Steel Guitar Rag"?

Delbert Barker Sr · Post by **Delbert Barker Sr** » 31 Dec 2010 6:02 am

Ray:
You may be right, it may have been Red Turner, that name sounds right

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 31 Dec 2010 11:35 am

Ray Montee wrote:If JERRY BYRD actually recorded 'STEELIN' the BLUES' during his early, early recording history, (during the early 1950's) and if he did so on his favorite little six string Ric with ONE VOLUME control only........ and that being that low profile, flat, hexagon knob.......

How in the world did he do the Wah-wah affect in the bridge since it had no TONE CONTROL? His foot pedal also was a volume control only.

Just tho't some of you historians might have the answer to this puzzling question.

Well Ray, The history will hardly ever be complete, because, the same problem lies with ALL recordings of All the top players, how do we know what guitar, how many necks, what tuning, what amp, how many overdubs. etc.
UNLESS you, or some knowledgeable Steel Player was actually at the recording, it can be nothing but speculation. Even the players themselves are prone to forgetting their given modus operandi on a given session.

There was no internet of forums then.. Can you imagine if there wasn't that facility now, the Buddy Emmons jazz album could easily be presumed to have been played on a left handed MultiKord.
Herbie Remington could be presumed to have recorded the album "Remington Rides Again" on a four necked Fender Stringmaster (When In fact it was a Fender 1000)

And Many other facts and figures would be lost to posterity, if not for the forums.
Unfortunately, the "Horses Mouth" opinion of what Jerry used, is now lost to us, and whilst his friends and family can recall SOME of the detail, the minutia is at the very least ambiguously reported.
Sad but true.

Jerry jokingly said to a fan once, "We never play the minors in the studio"
It has turned into a definite statement of fact according to some less enlightened people.

BUT educated ears listening intently, and alert eyes watching videos can probably dissect them and come to a general consensus as to the whys and wherefores of a particular performance.

Happy New Year Ray..

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 31 Dec 2010 11:49 am

Ray this is a present for you, it may prove useful in any future disceptation or Verbose janglings.
Click Here

The Steel Guitar Forum

A JERRY BYRD question.................

A JERRY BYRD question.................

Byrd

Delbert..............a question:

Enough controversy here..............

Jb

I vote this 'post of the year'

Re: Jb

Re: A JERRY BYRD question.................

Well now, Mr. Cohen...............

Thank you, Delbert!

Delbert....................

Re: A JERRY BYRD question.................