Gonna try something else fretless... a fiddle

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 25 Dec 2010 7:24 pm

Want to try another instrument and have settled on attempting to figure out the fiddle.

I'm looking for recommendations of what to buy in the realm of better than the bottom but not a Stradavarius (SP?).

Any suggestions are welcome, including those of perhaps a good fiddle website to get more information.

For those interested in the drums, try drummerworld.com. It's got a lot of amazing stuff on it.

b0b, if you've got a more preferred home for this thread please put it there for me, thanks.

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 25 Dec 2010 11:09 pm

Ray,

I did this exact thing about 9 months ago

My suggestions include

-Go to a real violin store to get your first fiddle/bow. Usually they offer full allowance for trade-up, and you will get something that at least plays reasonably well. After a while you will be able to hear a tonal difference in a sub $500 fiddle and a pricier one, but the cheap ones can be set up to play well, not so different from guitars. A well set up fiddle will respond very easily to the bow. Ebay and such is not a good bet to get an easily playable fiddle, although you might get lucky.

-Fiddle is at least as hard if not harder to sound decent on than steel, so be prepared for a lot of work

-Intonation on fiddle is much harder than steel, I foolishly thought that because I can play steel reasonably in tune I could transfer that to fiddle. The technique is so different that I am not sure it helps much, although developing an ear from playing steel helps I guess. At least I hear very clearly my out of tune notes on fiddle LOL.

-At least a few lessons are a very good idea to get the proper basic techniques (bow hold, posture, fingerings, etc) down, even if you just want to transfer the musical knowledge you already have onto the fiddle.

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 26 Dec 2010 3:55 am

A lot of good info here:

http://www.fiddlehangout.com/

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 26 Dec 2010 5:41 am

Ray
Maybe your have done this already but if not , try hooking up with your local “ Old Time Fiddlers “ in Beadford . they may be like our local group and have instruments available. I have always enjoyed the old fiddlers , grate place to keep your Reso skills up .

Mike Terry · Post by **Mike Terry** » 26 Dec 2010 7:30 am

I would recommend planning on spending a lot more on the bow than the fiddle. Buy the best bow you can & it will make learning to play fiddle a lot easier.

Paul Crawford · Post by **Paul Crawford** » 26 Dec 2010 8:41 am

I've been beginning to play fiddle for about the last 8 years. I'm just getting past point of making the neighorhood cats mate.

If you're going to slowly introduce it to the band, make sure to get one with mirco-tuners on all 4 strings, already has a pickup, and buy the hard case to haul it around. There is a lot to be said for an electric rather than an traditional instrument if you're moving around a lot. Find a fiddle player, not just a classical player for lessons because there seems to be a lot of difference in the approach.

Dean Edwards · Post by **Dean Edwards** » 26 Dec 2010 9:05 am

Ray, Did Dekley make fiddles??
Dean

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 26 Dec 2010 12:47 pm

I've been playing for about 30 years.

1) Keep your left wrist STRAIGHT.
2) Forget electric fiddles. They are are a lot more difficult to intonate in an electric band situation unless you have in ear monitors. Remember, 3rd and 6th intervals have to be tempered by ear. If you notice, most all Nashville road players play acoustic fiddles with pickups. Electric fiddles were a fad until players found out that there is NO acoustic feed back from the F holes in your left ear so you could hear.
3) Get a good bow! $250.00 + used.
4) Clasical players are stiff, and for the most part cannot play country fiddle. They sound and look funny. There are rare exceptions, but I can usually spot a classical player within 20 seconds. Get a bluegrass or country fiddle teacher. There are great DVD lessons.
5) Put all sharp objects and hanging implements away for 5 years.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 26 Dec 2010 2:37 pm

I've been playing fiddle on and off for about 10 years.

If you're going to get a fiddle have someone who knows what a good fiddle is pick one out for you or at least help you buy it. I bought two expensive real sweet looking fiddles that turned out to be duds in terms of response to the bow. I've since played $50 used fiddles that looked like crap but had great response, especially when bowing two strings at the same time.

I good bow is crucial. I have a $100 (10 years ago) german real wood bow that is pretty awesome and the best Glasser carbon fiber bow that is quite useable but a bit too bouncy.

As stated above, just get a real fiddle, a mute, and set it up with an on board mic later. I bought the NS solid body electric 5 string violin and it's the closest thing I've heard to a real acoustic fiddle, but still not that great!

My last suggestion would be to get a cheap mandolin ($50 used will do) and learn to chord it and play a few songs to get the fiddle fingering cemented in your brain.

Greg

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 26 Dec 2010 4:42 pm

So you want to play another fretless instrument ?
I got so fed up of playing flat on the fiddle that I put frets on mine, and machine tuners. Now it rarely goes out of tune.

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 27 Dec 2010 12:48 am

Great idea Alan - Is that a mandolin fretboard?

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 27 Dec 2010 6:36 am

Don't know where Alan got his but you can order those frets from Fiddlefork.com. They are called Fiddle Fretters and would be a wise investment for beginning fiddle. I played fiddle years before ever playing steel and think they may be more difficult to play or learn than the steel. I played the contest circut in Texas for years and had lots of good help from some great fiddlers which I am thankful for. Then I converted to playing country music on fiddle which was a different ball game than contest fiddling. Then I started playing steel and just about quit the fiddle, well practicing on it anyway. Still love the fiddle and know you will once you learn but it will be a long row to hoe but you may be one of those naturals who's playing great in a year. Whatever, good luck to you and your family, especially your wife if you are married.

Forgot to tell you that the fiddle fretters are a stick on fret board that can put put on or taken off just by loosening the strings and I think run about $30 for two of them. I have one on one fiddle that I have and use it in the studio when playing really slow fills and such and it'll keep you right on the money--Henry

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 27 Dec 2010 7:24 am

No Brian, it's not a mandolin fretboard, it's exactly as Henry described, a stick-on fretboard that can be removed without any damage to the instrument. This particular fiddle is a viola; they also make stick-on fingerboards for all sizes of violins, 'cellos and basses. I don't have one on my 'cello because it has such a long fingerboard that playing in tune, especially in the lower register, is much easier.

By the way, I put bass guitar tuners on my 'cello. I can't understand why, centuries after the guitar and mandoline did away with friction pegs, the violin family (except the double bass) still has them.

(Yes, I know the flamenco guitar still uses friction pegs.)

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 27 Dec 2010 10:25 am

Can you still get decent vibrato with the fretboard in place?

Greg

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 27 Dec 2010 5:10 pm

Yes, just like you can on a classical guitar. What you can't do is glide from one note to the next.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 28 Dec 2010 8:08 am

Hey Greg, just like Alan stated, vibrato and everything else works just fine but you don't exactly play the Fiddle Fretter like a fretted guitar or mandolin. I found out the best way to play the fretted fiddle is never look at fretboard and go by feel. Check it out on the Fiddlefork.com website. There's a video on there of someone playing a fiddle fretter.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 28 Dec 2010 8:44 am

Finally back to the net after a 4 day hiatus...

Thanks for the replies fellas, I appreciate the enthusiastic advise.

Looks like I'm gonna have to travel to Silver Dollar City (i.e. Buffalo, NY) and check out their fiddle store. The resounding theme I've encountered both here and in the "fiddlin' for dummies" materials is to hook up with a good luthier and go from there. There's a lot to the little thing and a lot of things that could be wrong. I guess there are hundreds of different chin rests alone.

Thanks for the advice about the bow too. Looks like an entry fee of about $500 to $1000 depending on opportunities and options taken.

Alan, that's quite a concoction of parts and pieces you've put together there. Old Stradyvarious would be proud

Thanks again for all the good info folks. Will keep you posted on the progress of my adventure in annoying cats.

Larry Schoppe · Post by **Larry Schoppe** » 28 Dec 2010 9:51 am

Kevin, can you suggest some good instructional DVDs for fiddle. My step daughter is learning to play and needs some advice.

Thanks,
Larry

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 28 Dec 2010 2:08 pm

Yes Larry. www.homespuntapes.com
Their beginner series is outstanding and some are particularly made for children. Takes you from a complete rank beginner to teach you country fiddle. You can even download them online on to your hard drive and sit in front of your computer and learn.
Ray, you do not have to spend $500.00 on a decent fiddle. There are many good ones to be had for less. There is a gentleman who sells some very nice fiddles here on the Forum here on a regular basis. Are you going to Monaco's here in Buffalo?
If you don't go through the pain of training your ear and hands you will never learn. Its funny because I remember what it was like to learn steel when I see beginners now.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 28 Dec 2010 3:54 pm

Kevin, I'd like to ask for your help. Seeing whereas I'm only 65 miles south of you, perhaps we could join forces in this quest. If you think I can get started for less than my original estimate(s), point me in the right direction and I'll compensate you for your troubles. Send me an private message e-mail via the forum if you can help me. Thanks a bunch for the info you've provided already.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 28 Dec 2010 4:21 pm

No need to compensate me Ray. If you want a decent beginner fiddle I can find you one right here. With four strings its alot easier than steel. The technique and intonation is what is difficult.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 28 Dec 2010 4:44 pm

Kevin, your on... thanks.

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 1 Jan 2011 12:49 pm

Ray, I started playing fiddle in 1973 and took up steel about six years ago, probably for the same reason you're wanting to take up fiddle. That, and just because pedal steel sounds so cool. Some things came pretty easy to me on steel as a result of having played fiddle for a long time. (It's a shame that right hand technique wasn't one of those things... I'm used to doing the fancy stuff with my left; my right hand still sucks.) It stands to reason the reverse would be true, and your skills on steel would give you a leg up on fiddle.

On acquiring your first setup, the advice I'll give you is don't short change yourself on the bow. I'd rather play a crappy fiddle with a good bow than the other way around any day. Playing the fiddle is 90% about bow handling, and there's no way you'll ever learn the proper technique with a cheap student bow. And, the bow affects tone more than you'd believe. Compromise on the fiddle if you have to; just get someone to set it up correctly for you and you'll do fine. But don't compromise on the bow. You'll hear a lot about how great some of the new carbon fiber bows are. This is marketing hype; just show me one pro who uses one. Uses, not endorses. I'd plan to spend at least $200-250 on a decent wooden bow if I were you.

One final thing, fiddlehangout.com membership is 99.9% "old time" style. There were no country music folks there while I was active. I got bored and left.

If I can help you with any aspect of learning to play fiddle, just PM or email me through the forum.

Good luck!

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 1 Jan 2011 3:27 pm

Johnny, absolutely right about the bow.

Mike Eisler · Post by **Mike Eisler** » 2 Jan 2011 8:23 am

Ray:

I have played bluegrass fiddle for over 40 years and am doing just the opposite to you, I am taking up the pedal steel late in life.

Careful at the violin shops. There is allot of smoke and mirrors concerning what a fiddle is worth. What you needed is a fiddle with a mellow sound (especially if you are going to amplify it ) and this does not always go along with what the classical players are looking for or a high price. Most violins in violin stores tend to have fairly brittle sound and you will pay too much for them. I would suggest asking a local fiddler to help you find an instrument. I also use carbon fiber bows because they don't lose their camber when it is cool and damp outside (if you are going to be playing outside) and they won't break easily. You'll get a much better playing bow for the money with carbon fiber. Good luck.

Mike Eisler

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Gonna try something else fretless... a fiddle

Gonna try something else fretless... a fiddle

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