StroboFlip Sweetened Tunings E9th Question

Ron Whitworth · Post by **Ron Whitworth** » 19 Dec 2010 1:36 pm

I have a question on StroboFlip Sweetened Tunings E9th.

Does anyone here know exactly what the numbers are for each string open & also the standard Emmons changes on the E9th neck?
They are not in the manual & I am curious to know.
Surely someone has figured this out already so I do not have to.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time to read this & give any help you can.
Merry Christmas to all..
Ron

Brendan Mitchell · Post by **Brendan Mitchell** » 19 Dec 2010 3:07 pm

Tuning theory is such a can of wriggly things .I don't know anything about the Strobobot but Tom Bradshaw makes a lot of sense here :

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=197268

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 19 Dec 2010 4:02 pm

They can be found on page 35 of the manual, if yours is the same as mine. But here are the numbers:

PSG-SE9:
[tab]
C -17.8
C# -5.9
D +5.9
D# -3.9
E +9.8
F -17.8
F# +5.9
G +5.9
G# -3.9
A +3.9
A# +9.8
B +7.9
[/tab]
PSG-OE9
[tab]
C -27.6
C# -15.7
D -3.9
D# -13.7
E 0.0
F -27.6
F# -3.9
G -3.9
G# -13.7
A -5.9
A# 0.0
B -1.9
[/tab]

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 19 Dec 2010 7:55 pm

Here I listed the same tunings in order circle-of-fifths so you can easily see the widths of intervals. I think I did this once before with some Newman temperaments that were similar to these.
The PSG-OE9 is the same as PSG-SE9 except that every note is 9.8 cents higher, so widths of all the intervals are the same.
Several unusual things stand out about these temperaments:
1. Widths of intervals vary wildly with no apparent method
2. The "F" and "C" notes are tempered as E# and B# so I copied them at the end if the list where it is easy to see the intervals below them. I don't think anybody would use them as F and C !
3. I think A# = +9.8 must be a typo. Surely you mean -9.8 !
4. Whoever tunes this way never plays F# and C# together.
5. Why is the interval from A to E so wide? You would want to use this one a lot.
[tab]
SG-SE9:

width of fifth interval width of major third
F -17.8 F to C = 700 cents F to A = 421.7 cents
C -17.8 C to G = 723.7 cents C to E = 427.6 cents
G +5.9 G to D = 700 cents G to B = 402 cents
D +5.9 D to A = 698 cents D to F# = 400 cents
A +3.9 A to E = 705.9 cents A to C# = 390.2 cents
E +9.8 E to B = 698.1 cents E to G# = 386.3 cents
B +7.9 B to F# = 698 cents B to D# = 388.2 cents
F# +5.9 F# to C# = 688.2 cents F# to A# = 403.9 cents
C# -5.9 C# to G# = 698 cents C# to E# = 388.1 cents
G# -3.9 G# to D# = 700 cents G# to B# = 386.1 cents
D# -3.9 D# to A# = 713.7 cents
A# +9.8 A# to E# = 672.4 cents
E# -17.8 E# to B# = 700 cents
B# -17.8
[/tab]
Obviously you would never play (F,A) or (C,E) together. Look at the width of those major thirds! You could not play an A minor triad on open strings. The "C" is a B#, and you could play a nice sweet G# major triad on open strings.
=========================================================================
Assuming that A#=+9.8 is a typo, and that you meant to type A#=-9.8, here is the same table corrected. Now you can actually play A# with other notes.
[tab]
G +5.9 G to D = 700 cents G to B = 402 cents
D +5.9 D to A = 698 cents D to F# = 400 cents
A +3.9 A to E = 705.9 cents A to C# = 390.2 cents
E +9.8 E to B = 698.1 cents E to G# = 386.3 cents
B +7.9 B to F# = 698 cents B to D# = 388.2 cents
F# +5.9 F# to C# = 688.2 cents F# to A# = 384.3 cents
C# -5.9 C# to G# = 698 cents C# to E# = 388.1 cents
G# -3.9 G# to D# = 700 cents G# to B# = 386.1 cents
D# -3.9 D# to A# = 694.1 cents
A# -9.8 A# to E# = 692 cents
E# -17.8 E# to B# = 700 cents
B# -17.8 [/tab]
Also I left out "F" and "C" because you would not use them in this temperament.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 19 Dec 2010 8:08 pm

5. Why is the interval from A to E so wide? You would want to use this one a lot.

Because of the so-called "cabinet drop" effect. The A note is a pedaled note on E9th. When the pedals are pressed the E string detunes slightly, narrowing the interval to a more acceptable value.

4. Whoever tunes this way never plays F# and C# together.

The F# to C# interval is also corrected somewhat by "cabinet drop", though usually not enough to make it sound exactly in tune. That's why a lot of people have compensator pulls on their F# strings.

Also, that F# tuning doesn't work at all for the "C" pedal. That's one of the problems with the StroboFlip - it doesn't accommodate the "two different F#'s" that many steel players use. You still have to tune your "C" pedal by ear.

Ron Whitworth · Post by **Ron Whitworth** » 20 Dec 2010 3:08 am

Thanks to all who responded to this thread.
All of you gentlemen have answered my questions.
Great discussion there between Earnest & b0b!!
I could hear the difference & it just did not sound right to my ears = close but just not right.
Now I understand why - Thanks Much.
Ron

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 20 Dec 2010 9:46 am

E.B said"

3. I think A# = +9.8 must be a typo. Surely you mean -9.8 !
4. Whoever tunes this way never plays F# and C# together.
5. Why is the interval from A to E so wide? You would want to use this one a lot.

# 3. The Peterson manual says the A# is +9.8 (actually they don't put the + sign in, I did for clarity, but the manual does NOT have a minus sign in front of the A# value of 9.8). Not saying it is not a mis-print. All values posted came from the manual.

# 4. I use the C# and F# together quite often. Sounds OK to me. Although , I do sometimes tweak things.

# 5. Don't know, but the presets sound fine on my guitar.

Damien Odell · Post by **Damien Odell** » 20 Dec 2010 5:17 pm

Bob,
Thanks for explaining the Stroboflip and tuning the E9 C pedal. I though it was just me...whenever I tune the 4th string E-F# C pedal change with the stroboflip then play a BC pedals down minor chord it's terrible, I end up having to tune that one by ear....

Glad it's not just me.