Do you play in a bar where a lot of folks don't drink?

Chuck Cusimano · Post by **Chuck Cusimano** » 30 Oct 2010 9:29 pm

Not that I haven't had a drink in the past, but I don't drink where I work. Two reasons; One, I'm going to get behind the wheel and drive home after the gig. (I don't drink and drive)
And two, I don't want to offend someone if they offer to buy me a drink, and I turn them down, and they say,"Yeah but you let joe Blow Buy you one...What's the matter, I'm not good enough?"

I'm seeing a lot more patrons who come out to dance, and they're not spending enough money in the bar to support the Real Country Music they came for. The Establishment can't afford to keep a band coming when the dancers aren't paying for the music. There's no cover charge, so the folks come out, stay and dance for two hours, and spend $2.00 or so for soft drinks. I don't know the answer..
I was just wondering if any of you forum brothers and sisters are seeing the same thing.

Mark Dershaw · Post by **Mark Dershaw** » 31 Oct 2010 5:02 am

There's no doubt. I notice that the drinkers are out after the first set. They want to get home before the "witching hour." Things sure have changed...

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 31 Oct 2010 5:46 am

I dont play in a band all the time, but I sub for people I know on occassion. I actually noticed this a few nights ago. I played a few gigs with a band and I noticed a large crowd early in the evening and an almost empty room by the third set. I asked the singer about it and he said its been that way for his band for well over a year. Many years back, it seemed like no one even showed up until 11 oclock and we used to have dodge the crowd to load up at the end of a job. I dont have an answer, but I have to wonder if the new DWI laws that took effect in Texas may have actually discouraged people from drinking so much when they go out. I know I seriously limit the amount I have when I am away from the house now.

Alan Tanner · Post by **Alan Tanner** » 31 Oct 2010 5:54 am

I dont drink anymore, but in my other life years ago I used to keep the whiskey company working at night to keep up. I think those years were the closest I ever came to time travel. Since, I have found that if you just carry around a glass of coke, most folks will leave you alone, or if they wanna buy, just order coke and usually they will let you be. One time a guy got pretty obnoxious about it. I finally told him that I could not drink booze because I was on probation for murder and had to do a pee test the next morning. He dropped out right quick. With the DUI laws around here (and I am for gettin' drunks OFF the road) it has killed a lot of the clubs. That, and added to the fact that the IRS has cracked down on gambling in the form of pull tickets, 50/50 etc, has left many private clubs hurting too. Also, lets face it, the dancing crowd has gotten older, and these folks would rather go out in the evening and leave about 10 or so. Can't see so well either, doncha know. Some of the private clubs around here have moved up their hours and/or shortened the gig time from four to three hours. More and more afternoon and early "no booze but food" dance events are turning up around here too. They take the form of opry type get togethers that feature some local talent. Kinda like a live band karaoke I guess. And regular dances too, but earlier, no booze, no smoking, door prizes, small 50/50 drawing, etc. More social now than the old pick up clubs from years before. I also think that party types cannot afford to pour it down like in times past, so they drink before they go out or smoke a little wacky to "enhance" the evening.

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 31 Oct 2010 6:24 am

I don't want to offend someone if they offer to buy me a drink, and I turn them down, and they say,"Yeah but you let joe Blow Buy you one...What's the matter, I'm not good enough?"

Part of a band's job is to help sell drinks, which keeps the club in business and helps you keep the gig. You don't have to actually drink everything they buy you. That's why cubs give away salted snacks, to make people buy more drinks.

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 31 Oct 2010 8:15 am

This may be the reason a local club in Portland is closing and we had to cancel the steel jam. I also talked to a gal at Jubitz about this same issue there. If they charge a cover the people complain and do not show up, but if they do not drink is does not help the bar.

Larry Behm

Steve Spitz · Post by **Steve Spitz** » 31 Oct 2010 9:41 am

Maybe a culture thing, but down here, they drink. A lot. We have one weekday gig where the bartender adds to our pay from his own dough, because our crowd drinks heavy, and he makes it back big time. I`m a very moderate drinker, but the rest of the band drinks, and the crowd does like to drink with the band. Down here, you need to keep the bar busy. It`s an unfortunate pairing, honky-tonk music and alcohol sales,but it does generate revenue.
Just my opinion, but some genres don`t attract enough drinkers, and club owners can`t afford to book them.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 31 Oct 2010 10:29 am

Live music and the sale of alcohol by the drink have been paired like Chang and Eng since forever,and it was a moneymaker for venues as well as bands.Nowadays vigorous DUI enforcement and the resulting fear of the police have made our customers drink water and leave early.Antismoking laws haven't helped either,and people are falling out of the habit of going out to hear hot local cover bands.I don't think that live country or live rock music will ever disappear completely,but it will end up being the entertainment industry's equivalent of building steam locomotives or horse-drawn carriages-a pleasant diversion,but not relevant to the mainstream.Sorry to see it go.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 31 Oct 2010 10:52 am

Thats exactly what a cover charge is for. If you are running an establishment who has a band that can't DEMAND a cover charge, fire them. Too many bands think that they are there to play music. They aren't. They are there to make money for the establishment. If they can't, they're gone. Its that simple. I was in a band for 7 years thatattraced 23 year old women and made it a point to sell alcohol. It was extremely successful and booked a year in advance.
I made it a point not to drink on the job, and I drink N/A/ beer to this day.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 31 Oct 2010 11:46 am

Kevin,you make an excellent case for cover charges(PSG's too),and the bit about attracting young women is right on the money as well...If the girls come,the boys and their wallets won't be far behind.One of the things I've seen,though,is that people are a little reluctant to ante up cash as an alternative to having the band covered in the price of their drinks,not to mention the risk of skullduggery regarding the contents of the cash-box.I do hate to say it,but alcohol enhances the party atmosphere,and absent that cheery influence,customers who do show up tend to party less hearty and there is something of a wet blanket thrown over the proceedings.Certainly a relaxation of DUI enforcement would have positive effects on the working musician's wallet,and negligible effects on road safety,but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the powers that be to give up all that money they get from fines,impoundment fees,and the like.I'd also not expect the legal/substance abuse counseling/insurance industries to give up their revenues from the current enforcement scenario,nor would I expect law enforcement personnel to give up the fun they have conducting the actual rousts.
Me,I don't drink at work.Haven't for many years;it's bad for my playing and I have to work hard enough at that as it is.
My answer to the OP's question is yes,but never for very long,due to the Incredible Shrinking Gig.

Chuck Thompson · Post by **Chuck Thompson** » 31 Oct 2010 12:04 pm

I think Steve might have hit on something. I play in a classic country band. It is a good band but the audience tends to be....umm.... a little older and more mature. They drink alot more soda than booze. We generally play early hour gigs (6-10P) at legions, vfw's etc.. Bars cant afford to fill a place with what they call "pop drinkers" that go home early.

I also play for an alt country song writer. We play venues that also features rock bands. The band's following tends to be alot younger and more willing to drink alot of booze. Bars love to have this band and the following that it has. They definately drink enough to pay a six pc band well.

Heh, I dont drink but i think a few of the band members help pay our wages too.

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 31 Oct 2010 12:46 pm

A 150 pound male with a normal liver who drinks one drink (a 12-ounce commercial beer, a 5-ounce glass of wine, or one and a half ounces of 80 proof liquor) will get a blood alcohol level of .02 percent. But you can also metabolize (break down) a blood alcohol level of .02 every hour. So if you only drink one drink an hour, you can never get legally drunk until your liver gives out. At two drinks an hour, it would still take you four hours to reach the legal limit of .08!

So you can drink and drive and still not be driving legally drunk or impaired. If more people knew this, and could both count their drinks and do the math (

) then the live music business might improve.

But remember that microbrew beers can be up to one and a half times as strong as commercial beers, and many mixed drinks contain more than an ounce and a half, or contain liquor that is more than 80 proof. Bars are more likely to pour six and a quarter ounces of wine than five. And metabolic rates for smaller people, females, and people with liver problems are slower. Plus the hops in strong beers is also an intoxicant, and there are alcohols other than ethanol in some beverages like tequila or rum that can also be extra intoxicating. I don't want to see any musicians get sloppy on stage, and I sure don't want to see anybody get hurt or arrested, but the misinformation on this topic is pervasive, and many people go home way, way, way before they are a danger to anyone.

That being said, people around here tend to drink quite a bit and stay fairly late, and the live music scene has suffered but has not evaporated. People hate cover charges though, and I think the solution is for venues to make their money from food if the people don't drink much. The bars around here that have really bad food do tend to be hurting financially...

Dave Hopping is right on, especially about the economics of DWI enforcement. The roads may not be safer, but some people are definitely making money from the DWI enforcement business!

Danny Hullihen · Post by **Danny Hullihen** » 31 Oct 2010 1:36 pm

All good points here guys. The new DWI laws definately made a negative effect on the size of the crowds, and most of the time, I see people drinking water an soda pop now, and yes the crowds seem to be a lot of the older generation as compared to days of the past, and leave very early. When we play to younger venues, (mostly rock) that crowd gets most of their drinks (among other substances!) from out in the car in the parking lot! Hence, the bar isn't making much money in this case either, even though they have a cover charge. Now ad to that the recent smoking ban laws, and the clubs and bars are now down to a few tables of people, and that's on a good night! Kevin is right, we are there to help make money for the bar or club, but... it's pretty hard to do that if there are very few to no people there to begin with. Obviously times are changing, (albeit not necessarily for the good,)but the days of 5 to 7 nights a week playing and making decent money at it are gone. It's now mostly kareoke and DJ's! Believe me, I feel your pain!

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 31 Oct 2010 2:35 pm

I noticed a few years ago when that big line dancing epidemic started that those people were drinking mainly cokes and water,one club owner up here started charging them $2.00 for water.I also noticed these people bring a separate pair of shoes in a shoe bag,I asked a guy and his date why they brought a bag with shoes? he said that they were ballroom dancers...I thought they were gonna go bowling.

Mark Dershaw · Post by **Mark Dershaw** » 31 Oct 2010 2:54 pm

I live in a very small rural community which happens to include 4 drinking establishments. Many of the surrounding communities are dry. On Friday and Saturday night, there are 3 to 4 county sheriffs in my small community. It seems that the revenue of snagging DUI's has become the first and foremost priority of law enforcement. Surrounding communities cannot get the assistance of law enforcement when needed. I'm just sayin...

Alan Tanner · Post by **Alan Tanner** » 31 Oct 2010 4:13 pm

Around here they will park across the street from known late night party holes. Especially those with live music that run until 1 P.M......picking targets at closing time. All they need to stop you is a burned out tail light, burned out lic plate light, no turn signal, or pull out of the lot with your lights off etc. That gives them the first reason....

Rusty Rhoads · Post by **Rusty Rhoads** » 31 Oct 2010 5:49 pm

My view on all this it started in the 80's and its called easy way to make money off working people they don't want to catch real criminal's that is to dangerous !
Cops targeting bars and club's is bad for bizzness
the best thing to do is complain to the mayor of your city that your club or bar is being harrassed and targeted by police force and have picture's and proof and have a petition singed and dated to the mayor and they will leave that club alone that is what we did back in the early days of the DUI laws....
One more thing that bother's me is Road block's those are also illegal !!!!!!!!!!!

Where is America Gone ?

Bill Lowe · Post by **Bill Lowe** » 31 Oct 2010 7:14 pm

Do the cops make extra money when they arrest someone for DUI?

Brian McGaughey · Post by **Brian McGaughey** » 31 Oct 2010 7:46 pm

Barry Hyman wrote:the hops in strong beers is also an intoxicant

Sidebar: Not so. Hops offer only bittering to balance the sweetness of unattenuated malt. They do not add alcohol nor or they an intoxicant.

Regarding Chuck's original post: Charge a cover charge.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 1 Nov 2010 2:32 am

i don't know if this is done in the good Ol'
here in froghaven, clubs have a bus, van, taxi, limo that take the folks home who should'nt drive
also instead of goin'out to joints a whoopin' it up, some folks have some heavy private parties on their own premises
yeah, the man does come over anyway to get them to lighten up...
have mercy !

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 1 Nov 2010 3:37 am

Bill Lowe wrote:Do the cops make extra money when they arrest someone for DUI?

Bill, the answer to that is yes in some areas and no in others. If you consider that DWI/DUI officers work primarily at night, and then they attend court during the day, in larger metropolitan areas, they get a good amount of overtime. Some of those officer work as much as 80 hours in a week. In smaller areas, they keep what is called compensatory time and they take the time off at a later date instead of being paid. In some areas, there are federally or state funded overtime programs called Selective Traffic Enforcement Programs (STEP) where officers work overtime to conduct DWI/DUI enforcement. I got the feeling that Texas passing SB 261 has really cut into people drinking in bars and driving away. It passed in 2009, and it seems to have gotten a good deal of attention in so far as a deterrent to drinking and driving goes.

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 1 Nov 2010 4:37 am

Sorry to stretch the limits of this thread, but Brian McGaughey is partly wrong here. Of course hops do not add alcohol, and they obviously do not show up on a breathalyzer, but the bitter principle in hops is definitely psychoactive, described in traditional herbals as a nervine, a sedative, and soporiphic (sleep-inducing). Strong hops in beer definitely can contribute to intoxicated sensations and behavior, which are things the police can arrest you for even if your blood alcohol level is under the limit. They can make you more likely to stumble and mumble, and while this might be a little-known fact, it is definitely true.

Brian McGaughey · Post by **Brian McGaughey** » 1 Nov 2010 5:34 am

(Barry, I'm a brewer and I didn't know that. Going to look into it.

)

Back to Chuck's thread...

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 1 Nov 2010 6:50 am

From Trease and Evans' "Pharmacognosy," Fourteenth Edition, a pharmacy school textbook published by Saunders in 1996:

"Hops have the properties of an aromatic bitter and are said to have a sedative action..."

Sorry guys -- don't mean to hijack the thread. But issues of intoxication (venue drink sales and DWI enforcement) seem to be directly related to the economics of the live music business...

Boon and Smith's "The Botanical Pharmacy" published by Quality Health Books in 1999 lists "insomnia" as the first medical use of hops, and points out that hops "may potentiate the action of alcohol."

Brian McGaughey · Post by **Brian McGaughey** » 1 Nov 2010 7:05 am

One must always remain open to learning...

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Do you play in a bar where a lot of folks don't drink?

Do you play in a bar where a lot of folks don't drink?

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