So what kind of amp do you Suggest?

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 26 Jul 2010 9:20 pm

What do you want to sound like? "Nashville Clean", "Dirty Blues", or something else? Practically any of the amps mentioned can make excellent clean pedal steel amps.

If it's "Nashville Clean", forget the anti-Peavey snobbery, they're great for this. They have voicing and EQ tailored specifically for pedal steel, and they're great deals for the dough. Evans and Webb amps are great too - frankly, anything that can deliver clean juice and has flexible EQ can be made to work. Nothing wrong at all with a Twin/Vibrosonic/Dual-Showman Reverb - um, I think Lloyd Green has done just fine with that Sho-Bud/Fender combo. I sometimes use a 300 watt GK bass head into a heavy-duty speaker cab. Depends on what you like. Put an effects unit in front of your Crown/Ampeg-8x10 and it'll probably work fine, but might be just a hair loud.

If you're going for more of a blues or rock sound - i.e., tube amp distortion - all bets are off. A good tube amp for guitar probably will sound fine for that type of steel playing. I like my THD Flexi 50 (class AB) head, and some others here use the THD Univalve or Bivalve (class A). A nice Deluxe Reverb is cool. Whatever works for you, there are no limits except time and money.

But since you're starting out, I suggest you spend your time practicing picking, blocking, and bar technique, not worrying about your amp. IMO, get a clean-sounding amp which won't hide your mistakes and get on it. Hell, even a $100 1980s Peavey Bandit 65 with a decent effects unit in front makes a tolerable amp to learn and play lightweight gigs on. I like the Peavey Profex II/Tubefex/Transtubefex effects series - a lot of steel players have used them and there are a bunch of presets floating around which sound good. Jack Stoner has charts of these plus some good Pod XT presets on his website - http://www.gulfcoaststeelguitar.com/

Personally, I double on guitar a lot and use a Tubefex into a Nashville 112 a lot, running a Pod into the power-amp-in for guitar. Before I started playing steel, I wouldn't have been caught dead with anything but a vintage tube amp. Live and learn, there are lots of ways to skin a cat.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 27 Jul 2010 1:36 am

Another good steel amp is the Yamaha G100-112. These were made between 1978 and 1982, and are not fashionable any more, which means that if you find one, you can pick it up dirt cheap. Several steel players here in L.A. have bought them. They put out 100 watts, and have one 12" speaker, and a built in parametric EQ so you can really dial in your tone. They are small, but weigh about 50 pounds.

I'm going to get a ZT Club. They put out 200 watts, and weigh 22 pounds.

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 27 Jul 2010 2:35 am

I'm not trying to knock Peavey. I have a Fox-modded Nashville (with a K-130)that is an excellent amp. Peaveys are cheap, loud,portable, and pretty much bulletproof. I also own a Victoria tweed twin with D-120's and a '66 twin reverb with a K-130. I find it impossible to believe that anyone could prefer the tone of the Peavey over the tube amps.
I usually stay clear of the "mines better than yours" and the "don't say anything bad about my guitar brand" threads that often seem to dominate this forum, because they are stupid and a waste of time-to each his own. Why I chimed-in here...who knows?
How often does it even matter anyway? You get to a loud club with a mediocre sound guy and all your "at home tweaked perfect tone" goes right down the toilet. If you can hear your steel over the drums and Telecaster, you're all set!

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 27 Jul 2010 3:20 am

Yup...Pop... fizz
Um-huh
$:\$

Stephen Cordingley · Post by **Stephen Cordingley** » 27 Jul 2010 9:29 am

one aspect that a beginner looking for a steel amp may not be aware of is the semi parametric eq on steel amps like the peaveys and the steel king
being able to "notch out" (lower) the mids at around 800 hertz is a widely used aspect of the traditional steel sound (I'm assuming a beginner would want his/her steel to sound typical)
regular guitar amps don't generally have that precise capability
btw, I just gave my steel king a workout to make sure it doesn't "suck": it doesn't, although the reverb length etc. isn't adjustable - as a starting point for a learner, however, it is a very respectable steel sound, imho

admin · Post by **b0b** » 27 Jul 2010 10:02 am

Mike Perlowin wrote:Another good steel amp is the Yamaha G100-112.

I disagree. That amp sounds like shit for steel, IMHO.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 27 Jul 2010 10:24 am

b0b wrote:
Mike Perlowin wrote:Another good steel amp is the Yamaha G100-112.
I disagree. That amp sounds like sheep for steel, IMHO.

I agree with you b0b. I have a G100-112 and even with better speakers I find it hard to get a good sound.
On the good side, it does have a parametric EQ with adjustable Q which can help to get unusual sounds. For example I have been able to get some useful Hawaiian effects from it, and sometimes I use it as second amp for unusual stereo efx.
It is not much good for live performance with a band however, because (like Carvin) they use smaller watts than most amps. That way they can get 100 of them into a little amp that doesn't put out much power.

Jim Simon · Post by **Jim Simon** » 27 Jul 2010 11:39 am

I suggest you seek out the advice of our Forum brother Ken Fox. He has been working on many of the different brands for years and also builds his own. If that doesn't appeal to you get a Webb.

Bobby McCauley · Post by **Bobby McCauley** » 27 Jul 2010 2:57 pm

Wow, I have a ton of info to soak in here. Luckily the soundman I work with has a rebuilt early 70's twin he is going to let me work over and as inexpensive as the Peaveys seem to be I may go ahead and pick one up just to AB. That way I can get a good idea of what both sound like. Next I'll start a thread about your favorite reverb units.

I've been reading this forum for about a year now and just became a member and this is my very first post. I would like to thank everyone for there input and honesty in helping me figure some of this out.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 27 Jul 2010 5:59 pm

Just got home and read some..

I'm thinking that until you find a "perfect" steel amp and you do have a sound guy and probably use some kind of processor for reverb etc a Peavey Nvl 400/100 or on the small end a 112 would be the ticket.

You mentioned a "Boutique" amp. I tried a Rivera and even the large ones didn't have the headroom. Not even close. Some use I guess AC30s or similar but again, not enough.

The steerings toward Ken Fox for modding PVs and his knowledge of Fenders are right on. He builds FINE custom Steel Fender "clones". I also meant a Fender Super Twin in my previous post. Doubt if you'd find one though. Then you'd probably have too much amp..

Reverb?

Podxt.

EJL

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 27 Jul 2010 6:38 pm

I'm loving my little class D heads, primarily made for bass, but they work great for steel. I have some Acoustic Images, an Eden, and a Genz Benz, they are small, powerful and lightweight. Where else can you get 500 watts in a 6lb package? Couple these with a neo speaker in a lightweight cabinet and your back loves it. I also have a '70 Twin Reverb with a D-130, but it never moves out of the studio. It weighs 84lbs.

Steve Leal · Post by **Steve Leal** » 28 Jul 2010 1:59 am

As I am sure many of our forumites are, I am quite obsessed with finding a perfect amp to achieve both modern and vintage sounds. I have also always been limited on budget, and find myself to be a minimalist whenever possible. Note, I also double on electric guitar and try sharing an amp as a compromise.

I have used the following amps through a s10 steel (in sequence of usage).

Here is my comparison:

Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - loud enough, but not much mojo. Could not achieve a true classic sound. Very generic sounding.

Nashville 400 - I found it difficult do dial in EQ, once I did, it sounded very full bodied and clean with lots of headroom for a modern steel sound, but again not very vintage sounding, and not good sounding for guitar. Built like a tank though.

Fender Deluxe Reverb Reisue (with EV speaker and modified 6V6 tubes to 6L6 tubes) - nice and portable, could achieve vintage sounds, but not enough headroom when playing with a 5 piece band.

Fender Steel King - nice all around full body tone, somewhat difficult to dial in mids. Has a bit of mojo, but still not chimy enough for my ears like a tube amp. Not ideal for electric guitar (too clean and bassy.

Fender Twin Rever Reissue (2 x 12" speakers) - this is the amp I should have bought years ago. Very easy to dial in EQ, plenty of headroom when playing with a band, very chimy on the high notes, best sounding reverb, guitar sounds great as well. On my s10, I can get most type of sounds with rlative ease. I set my EQ as follows: 5 highs, 5 mid, 6 low, high switch on. For classic Lloyd Green / Jimmy Day / Norm Hamlet sound, I set reverb between 1-2 (no effects). For Tom Brumley Buckaroo sound, I set reverb to around 3-4 (no effects). For modern sounds, Reverb at 1.5-2 (Bruce Bouton Brooks & Dunn sound with slight short delay) (Paul Franklin Alan Jackson sound with even quicker slight delay) (Tom Brumley Dwight Yoakam sound with longer slight single delay). With all of these options, I feel very ready to play in any type of setting. Sorry for rambling

Steve

Bobby McCauley · Post by **Bobby McCauley** » 28 Jul 2010 5:43 am

Steve, thanks for rambling, that's a pretty good rundown. I have tried the Deluxe reverb and I did like the over all tone but I was worried about playing with it live because of the headroom problems. Luckily I'm just as lost now as when I started but I have received some great info that's helping with narrowing down what I may get. I'm the kinda guy I want to get something I may play forever the first time not just buy something now to get by.

Steve Leal · Post by **Steve Leal** » 28 Jul 2010 1:59 pm

Bobby,

If you are going after a Fender sound, I would highly recomend buying a Twin Reverb, or a Bassman. Tom Brumley told me that he had pretty much stuck with using two Bassmans since the early years. When I heard him play at the dallas steel show, his sound stood out completely from everyone else that was playing through peavey 1000s.

If you are going after a Peavey sound, then the Nashville 112 would be my recomendation. My friend Boo Bernstein brought one to our gig once, and man, it sounded sweet. And it was nice and compact. I have also read that Paul Franklin has played through this amp when playing live with the timejumpers without any headroom issues.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 28 Jul 2010 3:15 pm

James you may love your particular Fender setup but I am speaking from my own experience --- I had a Fender twin with 2 x 12" cos I played guitar mostly before I started playing steel ...the Twin sounded like cr@p for what I was after tone wise ... I then got a Session 400 which was a huge improvement, and have since had a Nash400,and currently a Nash1000 and a Peavey rack system with 2 x 1501-4's ....all were/are infinitely better than the Fender Twin I started with - and of course I drive them with a Rev Pre so I'm still using tubes !

But I've only been playing PSG for 32 years so what would I know

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 29 Jul 2010 7:41 am

Your right Paddy, for you, you are happy with the Peavey sound, which is a great sound. But it's only one way to get a pleasing tone. You base your bad experience on ONE twin, from what I can gather. And I respect your 32 years around equipment. A man should know what he likes.

Well all twins are not created equal, first off. Secondly, my twins are gone through and VOICED for pedal steel. I myself would opt for a Session 400 with a JBL over many twins that are not voiced for what I want. But from Where you are Paddy, you may have a pretty good challenge for amp techs.

I have owned probably 10 Peavey amps in the past, and my ear always settles on the Session 400 and the LTD 400--that is, until I go and A-B them with my "voiced" twin and vibrosonic(thankyou Ken Fox!!)

But here's another thing, Peaveys sometimes need to be voiced. Lemay mods, Brown mods Sarno mods--Ken makes a fortune reworking peavey amps--all models, because their owners are not happy with the tone. So go figger.

The best Session 400 I ever played through went to James Wood(R.I.P.) in Fort Worth Texas and he worked it over. It was a stunning amp, and it smoked any other session 400 I had.

So bottom line, you can get good ones and bad ones and once in awhile great ones. My experience, to get a great amp according to MY ear, I have put the amp in the hands of the experts and let them do their thing. Peavey OR Fender. But that's just me, and my ONE (other) way.

Paul Fowler · Post by **Paul Fowler** » 29 Jul 2010 11:08 am

Iam very new to the pedal steel and i bought a decent carter starter and it stays in tune ,very well,however,i know nothing about amps as i have always played acustic string instruments,therefore i bought a roland cube 20.I am just learning coards at the present.so i have written down all the amps you guys have recomended i thought the 20 watt power would be plenty at home i run 2 watts .i did not know the real issue is frequency range and speaker size.also purchased a volume switch which i have not recieved yet .hoping to find something that will give me the steel sound that i love.my question at this stage of the game will my roland cube be ok for now and then hope to find one of those peaveys.at a desent price and would i have to purchase any other equip to go with it,.hOPE I DIDNT ASK TO MANY QUESTIONS .ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED.THANKS PAUL.

Brett Lanier · Post by **Brett Lanier** » 29 Jul 2010 1:38 pm

I recommend not spending a ton of money on your first round of equipment. It'll probably take some time and experimenting to find what you really like, then you'll have the stuff you get now as a backup rig. I have a Peavey LTD that I keep in the house, and a rack setup with a revelation pre & VHT power amp plus an echoplex that I leave in the car.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 29 Jul 2010 1:47 pm

James yes I agree with your points --- and oh! to find a good amp tech out this way ..about as scarce as good sound men - and that rocking horse doodah

I did have the good fortune to play Mike Johnsons Show Pro through one of Ken Fox's new amps at the Dallas show in march ...now that was a very impressive amp (the guitar was pretty good too hehe !! )

Paul Fowler · Post by **Paul Fowler** » 29 Jul 2010 2:26 pm

thanks brett and patty for the help paul.i like the old ghospel stuff, and old country.thanks againPaul

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 11 Aug 2010 11:40 am

Bobby McCauley wrote:I'm just getting into this wonderful/crazy instrument and I'm looking at getting an amp. As a bass player for many years...

I'm getting into this discussion a bit late, but I wonder what you've been using for bass amplification?

I've just recently acquired a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 bass amp to use for steel. The preamp has a tube front end, the power amp is digital 375 watts into 8 Ohms, and the GB cabinet has 1X12" neodymium speaker, rear ported, w/a tweeter I don't use. (They have a 2X10" cab, too, and of course you could just get the head and use a different cabinet, but I think the 1X12" cab sounds very good, and handles the power just fine). The controls are very much the same as those on all the standard solid state steel amps--especially the parametric mid controls. There's an effects loop. The whole package is unbelievably light (the amp head weighs 3 pounds!), and it sounds great for steel, IMO. And of course it could double as a compact bass amp.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 11 Aug 2010 4:43 pm

There are a lot of great amps out there for sure. Most of what you are hearing out of Nashville lately is in fact old Fender and other tube amps used in the studio.

Here is a sample of our tube amp in the studio:

http://foxvintageamps.com/linked/laughi ... scoded.mp3

Gary Chiappetta · Post by **Gary Chiappetta** » 11 Aug 2010 8:38 pm

Bobby,
Get yourself a Nashville 112 and a digitech RP-150 (or RP-155). Use the RP-150 for Reverb. If you use an RP-155 you should experiment with Lexicon Ambience, Lexicon Studio, Lexicon Room, Lexicon Hall until you find the "right" tone.

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