String 3 G# keeps breaking!! Please help.

[Clinton Kraus]

I am new to Pedal steel playing and have had the addiction for about 2 years now.
I have an 1980s ish Emmons P/P S10 and I love it like I love my wife and my dogs, BUT every time I change strings I snap the 3rd string G#.
I use the Buddy Emmons S.I.T. strings 38W, 34W, 30W, 26W, 22, 18, 14, 11, 15, 12. Each packet comes with a spare 11 G# string but should come with 10 extras.
What am I doing wrong?????
I live in Melbourne Australia and having a Push/Pull does not help as you are completely on your own with any mechanical problems.
Can somebody please tell me what I can do to fix this? I love this instrument, but it doesn't love me.

[Bobby Boggs]

I switched to Jagwires about 3 years ago.I haven't broke a string since. I've never filed the changer.I don't wrap more string around the tuning key than it takes to comfortably install the string. Almost never change strings.Most of my gigging guitars are 20 years old or older. Yeah I break a lotta rules. But you ask. And that's what works for me.
bb

[Tony Prior]

Well certainly Jagwires are good strings but for decades Steel players tuned the '11' ( G #) to pitch before Jagwires even hit the market.

Some typical issues:

are you tuned to 440 ?

Is there a burr on the bridge, it is a 30 year old guitar. Use a piece of cotton or soft cloth across the bridge to check for burrs. 30 years can wear down a bridge and cause a burr for sure. Do not assume there is no burr or defect in the bridge.

Are you winding too fast,?


Where is the string breaking, at the tuning peg or at the ball end ?

IS the B Pedal tuned to the accurate pull ?


Is the string breaking when tuned to natural pitch or with the B pedal pressed ?

Always tune to pitch from underneath, sneak up on the correct pitch, pull the string gently as you are approaching pitch to 'seat' it. Especially the 3rd string.

start there

I tune to 441 and use Cobra strings. SIT's are also fines strings. When I did use Jagwires, the extra packs of 11's were other brands. Most working players change the 3rd and the 5th very often. When playing the clubs I change them every two weeks regardless, just from the stress of it all. I have not broke a 3rd or 5th on a gig in years.

Good luck

let us know

t

PS..I sure hope this thread does not turn into which string is best, again...there are many reasons why a string can break, brand is just one and probably not the primary. Bad batch is more realistic than brand.
The process of placing a string on the guitar and tuning it is more prone to the issue at hand.

Resolve/understand the issue first then determine which brand string is best for you because if there is an issue it won't much matter how much you spend on strings, they will break.


If you put a Michelin tire on your car and the front end is out of alignment, the tire is gonna wear just like a Wallmart tire.

[Dave Magram]

G'day Clinton,

I agree with Tony--check your bridge (assuming that is where the string is breaking).
What may be more likely than burrs on the bridge is that the string may have dug a little groove in the top of the changer finger. When you pick the string, the groove will "trap" the string and act like a tiny wire-cutters, fatiguing the string where it comes out of the groove, causing it to break.

I have an Emmons p/p and whenever I change the strings, I check for grooves on the tops of the changer fingers.I use a small piece of very fine emery cloth (1500 grit) to polish out the groove.

Since you seem worried having a push-pull far away from any guitar techs, I'd highly recommend you purchase the booklet "Methodology And Practice In Pedal Steel Guitar" by Clem Schmitz. Clem used to own a steel guitar store and repair shop in Minneapolis. In his booklet, Clem explains step by step (with photos) exactly how to adjust Emmons push-pull guitars with several clever little tricks that would take a very long time to figure out.

He sells the book on eBay. It is currently listed as "Pedal Steel Guitar Methodology P/P Guide Booklet" for $11. This is a bargain!!
You may only need it once every 10 years or so, but you'll be glad you have it then.

If you can't find it there, you can contact Clem at: freedomsauce@bellsouth.net

Good luck,
Dave

[David Nugent]

Clinton...This may not apply to your problem, but when changing strings I always rotate each nut roller 1/4 to 1/2 turn before installing the new string. This may help to avoid a groove being formed in the roller from the constant wearing of the string on one small section.

[Clete Ritta]

...every time I change strings I snap the 3rd string G#.
I use the Buddy Emmons S.I.T. strings...

Clinton,

I use SIT Emmons as well, and had a similar problem on my Mullen SD10. Its not the strings. I usually use minimal winds at the tuner, but found that adding extra winds on the 3rd helps to minimize breakage.

As others mentioned, check for burrs on the post and changer. Make sure the roller is freely turning and a little graphite or lube applied.

Im guessing they are breaking at the tuning key?

Clete

[Eric Philippsen]

All the suggestions given in the previous posts are excellent.

I once kept breaking my 3rd string as soon as I got it up to pitch. Went through about 5-6 of them. Finally discovered it was simply a bad batch of strings. That's all it was.

[Bill Ford]

Clinton,
All the above are excellent tips, one thing I do on the 3rd is carefully uncoil it, and lightly grip it between your thumb and index finger and slowly pull it through from end to end, if you feel any kinks/rough spots in the string, don't use it, it will break before getting up to pitch.
If you find that there is a groove, or rough place on the changer get a piece of fine #600 grit wet/dry sandpaper, and cut a small strip that can be wrapped around a flat object the same width of the changer finger. As you sand the groove out be extra careful to follow the contour of the finger, you do not want a flat spot here, then polish with "semichrome", or a good aluminum polish. Please take your time here because mistakes here are easy to make, and sometimes hard to correct.

Bill

[George Kimery]

My old 74 Emmons PP is good for about 4 to 6 hours on a 3rd and I had to put a new one on before every gig. I tried different string brands, then tried the Jagwire's.
I use the Tommy White ones with the .0115 3rd. End of problem. I have only broken one in two years. I don't even keep up with the life of the string anymore. I need to put on new strings before I break one. Jeff Newman used .012. His opinion was that they were larger, therefore less likely to break and sounded fuller. This didn't work for me. With the .012, you have to put more tension on them. There is definately something about the .0115 jagwires that keeps them from breaking. If you try these and they break, then you have another problem I guarantee. Good luck, but the problem can be solved. Also, make sure that you aren't putting the string on up-side down with the string end digging into the changer. And a plug, if you don't have my 3rd hand string changer helper, you should get one. Only $3.00 plus $2.00 shipping. It will push the ball end of the string all the way up onto the metal peg and hold it in placed, leaving both hands free to do the string change.

[Brad Malone]

When talking about string breakage do not forget about considering changer design...I have never broken a string on my Williams and I have had the Guitar for 3 years..I cannot say that about any other Steel I have owned..although I understand Anapeg and Excel also have great changer designs....trouble is, the Anapeg is no longer being built and the Excel is made in Japan.

[Storm Rosson]

I do what senor Ritta said, and get around 3 full wraps on the tuner peg,been doin this since I had my first Pro II and string breakage is a non-issue now

[Larry Bell]

Clinton,
The most important piece of info is still missing:
WHERE is the string breaking?

If at the keyhead, you need more wraps around the post
If at the roller, look for a burr there
If at the bridge, look for a burr there

If anywhere else it MAY be a bad lot of strings.

Do they all break at the same place?

[Kerry Hutcherson]

Hey Clinton,
I use the S.I.T. strings, too, and although I have had some G# strings break on me, I don't blame the strings. Every time the high G# string has broken, it's been my fault.

Once I hadn't changed the strings in a long time, and I'm sure that it just broke because it had been subjected to a lot of bending and dirty fingers for too many gigs. The other times that I've had a high G# break on me have occurred when I was trying to change the string really fast and I didn't allow enough time for the string to settle into its proper tension slowly.

I find that a good way to prevent breakage is to bring the string up to F# (a full step below the correct pitch) and then pull on the string a little as if you were doing a choke bend. Do this five or six times and then check your tuning. Tune the string back to F# if it has gone out of tune, and then repeat pulling on the string. Then, slowly tune the string up to G# and repeat the pulling-tuning-pulling process a couple more times. By this time, the string should be staying in tune every time you pull on it a little. Finally, you can go ahead and slowly press the B pedal to bring the string up to A.

I agree with everything else that has been said so far about this topic, but if you've checked for burrs, issues with the roller nut, etc., you might just not be letting the string adjust to the tension it needs to reach the high G# note slowly enough.

[Brendan Mitchell]

Clinton , all the advice as to burrs on the changer , wraps on the machine head etc are valid . You may have a few dud strings , don't be afraid to get more 11's they don't have to be from a set . You can probably order spares of that string here on the forum .I always buy my strings here ,B0B has a great service going and I always get extra 11's and extra 22's just in case .

[Alan Rudd]

I was having the same problem. I was told to put a drop of oil on the roller and haven't had any more problems.

[Danny Letz]

Again, if the string is breaking at the tuner and not at the changer, the hole that the string goes thru in the tuning peg can just be too sharp. It does not have to have to have a burr on it. Take a Dremmel tool with a small burr that is rounded at the end and smooth the entrances to the hole like a dentist working on a cavity. I have had this problem occur on new Zums and Mullen and even on an older guitar one time. Actully Bruce Zumsteg put me on to this. They most all use some brand of manufactured turner they buy for their guitars.

[Dennis Wallis]

I used to break strings until I started using S I T strings. Hardly ever break one now . When putting on a new string of ANY guage never tune to pitch then hit the pedal . Slowly and gradually tighten it and push the pedal that pulls it several times until you finally get to to pitch then so it some more until it holds pitch . Doesn't matter if it's the 3rd string or the 10th string . Gradually breaking it in will help eliminate the breakage .

[Doug Palmer]

I use GHS Boomer's .011PG. It's break-strength 34 to 35 Lbs. Made just for pedal guitar. I play about 8 gigs before I change it. Have yet to break one. Push-Pulls do break more strings than LeGrande's do. Don't know why!

Doug

[Mickey Adams]

All good advice for sure. At Mullen Guitars we've gotten in the habit of wrapping the strings on BOTH sides of the post hole (CAPSTAN!!). A few wraps in the opposite direction and then cross back over the string and wrap about the same number of times on the opposite side of the post hole (CAPSTAN!). I can honestly say that after using this method I have not broken a single 3rd string on my G2 in over 2 years...ala: Mike Mantey

[basilh]

At Mullen Guitars we've gotten in the habit of wrapping the strings on BOTH sides of the post hole.

Both sides is the correct modus operandi, after all, that form of shaft is called a capstan, and not a post, so how on earth could the hole in the CAPSTAN!! be called a "Post Hole ?.
The purpose of the curved indentation is to make the string tighten upon itself and prevent it from slipping out of the hole..Doesn't everyone know that ? Well more do now after my NBD:..
It's CAVU..As Mr Seymour would say..

[Clinton Kraus]

I love this forum SO much! Where else can a man come to the table with a problem and different people from all over the globe come to your rescue?
Progress report:
I have oiled up the roller a little and wound the string on more than previously and all seems to be well on the (Country and) Western front.
I wish I could buy all of you a beer.
Thank-you so much.
While I am here, Micky, thanks for posting your internet lessons. You are basically my pedal steel teacher and the information that you pass on is truly priceless.

[Don Barnhardt]

If all this good advice fails, try dropping your whole tuning to D9.

[Tony Prior]

If you tune down to D9 you should re-calibrate string gauges, which means you are right back to the same scenario.

[Storm Rosson]

That cross wrap is da bomb Mickey, I feel kinda brain dead now cause it didn't occur to me years ago.....duh!!! Yep this forum is killer IMHO...Stormy

[Mickey Adams]

Clinton thats awesome man!...Nothing gives me more enjoyment!..And you're so right Storm..The Forum provides a great inlet and outlet for us all...