Death To Greedy Lead Guitarists Who Step On Steel Players!!!

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

It's happened to all of us. Some guitar playing jerk who hogs all the fills and rides and never gives us a chance to play. In another thread our hero Jim Cohen tells of a guy who wouldn't let him take a ride on Sleepwalk, and our fellow forumite Mike Johnstone has posted about somebody doing the same to him on Steel Guitar rag.

I once ran into this and tried to explain to the guy that the steel is a lead instrument and that it would be better if he played the fills on the verses and I did on the choruses, and we split the rides in half with him playing the first half and me playing the 2nd, and his answer was "I don't know what that thing you play does, but I play LEAD guitar. That means I play all the leads."

What is it with these guys anyway?
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Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

What a ridiculous statement. Maybe he is one of those people that think lead is superior to rhythm guitar playing. Most of those thinkers are not able to play a good, solid backup.

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

Quick fix if they will let you sing. Sing "Folsom Prison Blues" in the key of Eb. Works every time.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

That's why I always try to have an amp that's bigger and more powerful than the guitar player. When I think it's time for me to play, I WILL BE HEARD. If the guitarist or band leader doesn't like it I will be fired. I've been doing this for 45 years now, been a member or freelanced in hundreds of bands and I've never been fired from a band.

There's a bit of a macho / respect thing going on there and some guys have to realize you are willing to go toe to toe with them if need be. It doesn't have to be that way but, in some cases, it just IS. In most cases, the 'showdown' only has to occur once. I try to be polite but if that politeness isn't returned, I can assert myself as well.

I've found that, once that episode is over, I get the nod for more solos and when I start to fill a verse or chorus and the guitar player does the same, he will back down. You DO have to have enough chops to win, though.
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George McLellan · From: Duluth, MN USA

I think if someone is "noodling" is the most annoying. I don't think it adds anything to the overall sound, just clutter.

Geo

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Here's my take on it. For me, after 42 years of doing this professionally, playing steel guitar has become a job that I do to earn money. Most of the time, it's a pleasureable job; but not all jobs in the "real world" are pleasureable, are they?

I put things into perspective. As long as I'm getting paid, there are worse things to do for a living than sit on my ass for a couple hours and listen to the masturbatory antics of an egotistical guitarist. I don't battle with anyone anymore. I paste on a phoney smile, play pads with a very light touch, let my mind wander to whatever/wherever; and at the end of the evening, I get my money, pack up, disingenuously tell everyone that I enjoyed it, get the hell out and decide not to accept any other gigs with that particular organization if at all possible.

Some would say that's a passive aggressive attitude. I say it's simply disinterested.

I'm probably jaded, but I've had enough experiences in the music business that I've lost a good degree of the passion and the expectations. If the worst problem I ever had in my life was dealing with what I described above, I'd be a very fortunate man.

I'm at the point in my life where it's more fun to be out on a lake with a fishing rod in my hand. But doing that costs money, so I play gigs.

That said, I do enjoy very much the two or three bands I regularly play with; all are comprised of excellent musicians who thankfully are all on the same page regarding what to play and where to play it. Like I said, it's a pleasureable way to make money, a vast majority of the time.
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Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

I've played with those who simply do not know when to shutup, whether they be guitarists or harp or sax players or keyboardists or whatever.

They are clueless.

For freelance gigs, somehow, I work around or through them. More often than not, the rest of the band is tired of hearing their non-stop playing which is like a pesky fly you can't get rid of. So, somewhere towards the beginning of the gig I'll push through a couple of licks or fills or backup and then lay back. Then, usually, the rest of band want to hear more. At that time, in front of everybody, I'll ask the guy-who-won't-shut-up if we can trade fills or whatever. Of course, he can't say no. But even with that they sometimes just keep doing what they were doing.

Sometimes the offender is the steel player.

Mike Archer · From: church hill tn

well Mike ease up a bit!! your killing me!! Very Happy

ive been playing guitar for 47 years and I know when and when not to play
im also a steel player and I work with a steel player and I dont walk on him or any body else
I play with its rude and uncalled for
I think thats the worse thing any player can do
but I have heard guitar players who do just what you said there all over the steel/fiddle/and
pretty much everybody in the band
and it sucks!! only thing I know to do is
TELL THEM TO STOP OR FIRE THEM!
or shoot um like you said hehehehe Mike

Mike Kirkley · From: Helendale, California

Well, I have been doing this madness for a large number of years, and have seen my share of overbearing lead guitarists, as well as "lead vocalists" that can't carry a tune in a bucket, but still think they're the next garth brooks. Well, for what it's worth, I mostly ignore them. I'll just back the volume pedal down some, play chords, and ride it out. I haven't had that much of a problem here in Australia, but when I was still living in the States, I played in a "band" in North Carolina with a guy who wasn't worth a tinker's damn as either a singer or a guitar player, but he had some of the best equipment money could buy. All that stuff didn't help!!! He still couldn't sing or play. When I finally left the band, I told him, one on one, what I thought about his sad lack of talent, and he stood there and bawled his eyes out!!! Damnedest thing I'd ever seen...a 43 year old man, crying like a little baby. LOL...what could I do? I turned around and walked away, and never spoke to the dude again!! As a footnote, the band dissolved shortly after I left...don't know if it was because I left, or because of the things I told the guy, or what, but North Carolina was spared this cat's so-called singing forever after that!!

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

Paul Crawford · From: Orlando, Fl

How Many Lead Guitarist Does it Take to Change a LightBulb?

One. They just hold the bulb up to the socket and wait for the world to revolve around them. Wink

Papa Joe Pollick · From: Swanton, Ohio

Whoa up there!!!!Are you guys lumping all lead pickers into one sorry group? That just ain't right.I've been on both sides of the fence and it also can work the other way.The one and only steeler that I ever had a problem with was the one that did the hoggin'.I worked ONE night with that group.If you're having problems with a lead player that's playin' hog,and you continue in that situation then you need to improve your playin' so you can work with better musicians.If the money is the main reason for playin'music then you need to find another occupation..

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

Lucky me!!

I get to play with this lead player every week!! Very Happy

It just doesn't get any better....... Razz

Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

While I certainly don't have the breadth of experience that Herb does, I do have a lot of years on a pack seat and I couldn't agree more....
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Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Mike ,This is funny stuff...I love it!What is a lead guitarist? does that mean he or her doesn't know how to play rhythm?I can't begin to tell you how many gigs I've done playing guitar with Steel Guitarist Dan Tyack and never stepping on his toes. Laughing

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Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Steve English,I've seen that guy with the purple
"Tele" somewhere???? Confused

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Carson Leighton · From: N.B. Canada

Hey guys,,there's not need for anyone to step on the next guy's toe's for this...Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet,,get your pay,,pack up and go home..I've had to do it many times...
This thing works both ways,,it not always the guitar player's fault..I've heard steel players that didn't know when to quit either..It's just that some people don't know when "not to play".. What really bugs me is guitar players that look over at you with a grin and start trying to play pedal steel licks...What's the point,,don't they realize that we can do that much easier..? ....Carson

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Scott Shipley · From: The Ozark Mountains

Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

Think hard Stu.....

Does boom-a-rangs ring a bell???

Laughing

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Scott, mon ami
Whilst I certainly agree with you to a great degree, and for the most part my tongue was firmly ensconced in my cheek for a great amount of what I've written here, the real topic is (or should be) about players that don't play appropriately en ensemble when supposedly sharing the lead instrument chores with another musician.

Steel players who don't quit, or fiddle players who don't know when to put the thing under their arms for a moment, can be equally guilty, as has been previously noted.

Rarely are steel guitarists the only lead instrument in a band, however; whereas frequently in small combo situations, like rock bands or 4-piece groups, the guitarist IS the only lead instrument. Frequently, if only out of force-of-habit, an electric guitarist who's unaccustomed to sharing the lead duties will just continue his usual job, especially if "who plays what, and when" hasn't been previously discussed.

Players who learned in an ensemble situation, such as school band or orchestra in high school, are accustomed to only playing in certain sections and also working with other musicians fulfilling the same role; not so in a small rock combo where there's a guitarist who does everything and is SUPPOSED to do everything.

In any kind of a group endeavor, not just music, but anything (building a house, being part of a sales force, whatever) that is to be accomplished by a group of individuals, it takes a certain amount of cumulative responsibility to accomplish the task. If one person assumes the lion's share of the responsibility, the others in the organization aren't required to contribute as much. When a group member would LIKE to contribute more (in this case, the steel player) but is stymied because another player is doing everything, it can be frustrating. It's a common problem in real-life job situations ("Joe is brown-nosing the boss" "He's making the rest of us look bad," etc.) This is actually what is being discussed.

I could visualize this situation: A blues band decides to expand and hire a horn section, and the lead guitarist, who formerly was IT, now must give up turf to the horns and a lead saxophonist as well. He might get a bee in his bonnet about that, and while it wouldn't necessarily be correct, I could understand his disappointment in not being the main guy anymore.

Just my $.02
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My rig: Infinity and Telonics.

Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?

Scott Shipley · From: The Ozark Mountains

I agree 100% Brother Herb. And for the record, you are one that I would never accuse of being anything but tasteful. I thoroughly enjoyed that gig we did together in France that time.
It is about being a good team player, and sadly, there are a LOT of players (on every instrument) who just "don't play well with others." The solution however isn't to whine, it's to reinvent yourself or whatever you have to do.
One of the coolest things I ever saw was when I was hosting a Bluegrass Songwriter's series on WSM, from The Station Inn in Nashville. One of the guests shortly before he passed was John Hartford. He came on first after the break, and the house was packed. They were still VERY loud from the break, so he started off at a whisper. Within five seconds you could have heard a pin drop. Amazing. To be heard, he got quieter, not louder.

As the great philosopher W.S. Monroe once said, "If you don't like your job son, set your water bucket down."
Winking

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