Help me identify this double 8 console

[Jay Bowerman]

I recently acquired this double-8 console, along with some interesting history. It ostensibly was hit by shrapnel in the bombing of Pearl Harbor. There are three irregular holes, two in the top and one that just caught one side, all at the same angle, consistent with the story. I would love to know if anyone can identify a maker or other information on this guitar. I am uncertain about whether it should be restored and if so, whether to try to utilize existing parts, replace things like the pots and switches, etc. One of the pickups had a wire severed by the shrapnel. The other pickup works but the control switch is intermittent and touchy. Neither pot affects the sound at this point.

I would love to learn to play it a little, as I'm currently playing a fine Harlow 6-string resophonic and figure I can at least get started on an 8-string Hawaiian style.

[Earnest Bovine]

It ostensibly was hit by shrapnel in the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

Looks more like damage by spear points in the Visigoth sack of Rome.

[Jon Nygren]

I don't believe those ric horseshoe PU's were in existence during the Pearl Harbor attack? Those look like post-war models to me.

Looks like a home-made instrument?

[Brad Bechtel]

The pickup assembly and tailpiece appear to be similar to those used by Rickenbacker in the DW series (a 1953 DW may be seen at Rickenbacker's historic archives online).

The rest of the guitar looks like a Vega, and Vega did use that type of pickup on some of its early lap steels. Unfortunately the Vega steel guitars that I've seen (and that Michael Lee Allen has shown us in old catalogs in other discussions) don't look like this one.

Vega would be my guess, but that's just a guess. I'd say it's well worth trying to restore. I'd go with new electronics where necessary, but keep the old hardware as much as possible.

Good luck with this project.

[Jay Bowerman]

Thanks, guys. That is helpful, especially knowing that it most likely was NOT at Pearl Harbor in 1941. A number of features about it are pretty similar to parts of some of the Rickenbackers I'm finding photos of, but it makes sense that this is "home made" by someone with good shop skills. Knowing that it doesn't need to be preserved for historical reasons makes it easier to consider some restoration work using available and equivalent parts, enough so that I can try playing it without investing a fortune or too much time.

Brad, when you say "go with new electronics where necessary..." do you mean to replace the horseshoe pickups with something else, or are you referring to the volume and tone control pots and the 3-position switch?

jay

[Alan Brookes]

It might have been made as a one-off out of parts. When I was young I couldn't afford "store-bought" instruments so I made a lot of my own. For instance, one of my lap steels has pickups off an old Rickenbacker regular electric guitar, while another has Gibson pickups from a Les Paul, and Gibson machine tuners.

In years to come people are going to ask what models they were...

(I usually stick builders labels inside the instruments I build, for this very reason.)

[Michael Lee Allen]

REMOVED

[Brad Bechtel]

...when you say "go with new electronics where necessary..." do you mean to replace the horseshoe pickups with something else, or are you referring to the volume and tone control pots and the 3-position switch?

I meant go with new volume and tone control pots and the three way switch if they don't work. If the pickups work, I'd leave them alone.

[John David]

oahu have some horse shoe pick ups something like that in 1938 or 39. not sure if thats what they are.

[Jay Bowerman]

Thanks to all of who have weighed in so far. I agree that it's not a manufactured instrument. As far as the "made up 'facts'" from the seller, it's worth noting that I didn't buy this instrument. It's been handed along a couple of times before given to me as the only "player" the current owner knew. The 3 identifiable holes in the instrument are consistent with the shrapnel story. All are somewhat different in size and shape but all penetrated and passed through the wood at approximately the same oblique angle, consistent with mateterials ejected from an explosion. That, of course, doesn't mean it was at Pearl Harbor, or even in Hawaii.

A little more searching revealed that the horseshoe pickups were available well before the war, but that Rickenbacher switched to 1 1/4" in 1943. The pickups on this one are 1 1/4" further suggesting that this is a post-war instrument.

I like Brad's suggestion of swapping out the 3-way switch and the vol and tone control pots with new components. I can always save the existing ones for "posterity."

One of the leads from one pickup was severed. My son, a fine luthier of acoustic instruments, suggested I start on the damaged pickup by simply checking to see if the only break in the wire is where it connects and then simply reconnecting. A small shortening of the fine winding should have minimal impact the overall performance. If the whole winding was compromised, that's another story. At that point, I guess I'll be looking for a replacement pickup, or the possibility of rewinding this one myself.

Keep me posted if any of you have further suggestions.

jay

[Alan Brookes]

If the holes really are from shrapnel that doesn't necessary mean it was at Pearl Harbor. Maybe his outhouse exploded from a build-up of methane.

[Jay Bowerman]

Alan--I like your style. There are, of course, a number of equally plausible hypotheses to the methane explosion. Maybe it was being played by a moonshiner who's still exploded.

[Eugene Cole]

I recently acquired this double-8 console, along with some interesting history.
I would love to know if anyone can identify a maker or other information on this guitar.
I am uncertain about whether it should be restored and if so, whether to try to utilize existing parts, replace things like the pots and switches, etc. One of the pickups had a wire severed by the shrapnel. The other pickup works but the control switch is intermittent and touchy. Neither pot affects the sound at this point.

If they are accessable you might want to read the codes off of the pots to determine the year they were made. This does not tell when the instrument was assembled; but they are among the only parts which can often be dated accurately.

Close-up pictures of the knobs, pickups, tuners, pots, and/or any patent info stamped on the pickups or elsewhere can also be used to determine when components wer made or created. Close-ups of he tuners in some cases can allow an educated guess as to when they were made.

Regarding restoration: to restore one need to know what the original looked like. The other option is to customize it (to use non-original parts).

I think that any instrument in working-order is far more desirable that on that is not working, or is missing critical parts. Using modern potentiometers, shielded wiring, even foil-lining the control cavity and making sure that (or adding) the ground wire to the strings/bridges are working are all things which would (on a no-name) instrument make it a much nicer instrument. I would rather have good and working modern pots than all-original but not-working pots. Shielding upgrades (particulalry when hidden) are also a plus to my mind. Quiet pots and good shielding make any instrument more fun to play.

You can make a temporary "test" bridge and/or nut out of a block of hardwood, buffalo horn, or even a metal pipe to see if the electronics work (or have issues). This first-step may be all that you need to do to determine how much more effort you want to put in to re-invorgorating it as an instrument.

I would want to try to reinvogorate it. But I have tools and the addiction... err I mean, the "interest" in doing such projects

[John Billings]

Don't replace the pickups! If need be, send them to Jason Lollar. He'll fix 'em!

[Keith Cordell]

John nailed it, get the broken pickup rewound but keep those, they are 90 percent of the cool factor for this guitar. Since it is a homebrew instrument I'd just clean it up, get it running and enjoy it.

[Alan Brookes]

Keith is right. Just get it playable and presentable but don't try and make it into something it's not. It's so easy to build lap steels that if you want to experiment you build anew: keep existing instruments the way they are.

[Ron Whitfield]

I'm quite happy to report that due to Jay's extreme generosity, this Hawaiian steel console, no matter what it's actual history, will be coming (maybe returning) to Honolulu to start a new life.

The plan is for minimal cosmetic restoration/cleaning, leaving it's aged doggedness as part of it's charm.
It'll be interesting to examine the electronics and get'er up to snuff.
Nothing further was determined about it's 'war' background, so it is what it is, a history mystery...