emmons guitar - Paolo Ercoli

Richard Damron · Post by **Richard Damron** » 20 May 2010 6:57 am

Erv -

I have no dog in this hunt either. The issue in this thread is not the quality of the instrument or the waiting period but, rather, the lack of communication on the part of Emmons. This lack of communication does not speak well for "customer service" on the part of Emmons. I gather from reading all of Paolo's posts that he would have been quite happy had Emmons just kept him abreast of the status of the instrument and accepted the delay in time as a necessary evil in this PSG building business.

The only other issue - IF there's an issue - is whether the unmistakable quality of an Emmons guitar has suffered under Jr's watch. If not, then one must be mindful of that old adage "Patience is a virtue". One cannot arbitrarily link the two in the absence of verifiable evidence as some are apparently willing to do.

Paolo has, indeed, shown the patience of Job, as someone has remarked above. He is deserving of much better treatment - in the name of customer service - from Emmons than he's thus far received.

Respectfully,

Richard

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 20 May 2010 7:18 am

Richard,
Believe me, I have empathy for the Italian boys but I do not have the audacity to tell the Lashleys how to run the Emmons Company.
The United States was intended to run under the free enterprise system (lately I have my doubts), but never-the-less, they can run their company anyway they wish or choose. Even is some bashers here on the Forum think otherwise.
They build an excellent product, well worth the wait, and if you have to put up with some of their ideosyncrasies, that's just the way it is.

Richard Damron · Post by **Richard Damron** » 20 May 2010 7:37 am

Erv -

I agree. However, inherent in your statement is the irrefutable fact that - lacking excellent customer service - many might just choose to go elsewhere to spend their hard-earned money. Carried to an extreme, this could very well lead to the demise of the company. I doubt that anyone would wish that fate upon such a respected name.

Given that, one can assume that it would be incumbent upon the Lashleys to devote much more attention to this aspect of the business. In my judgement, they cannot afford to indulge themselves such a glaring "idiosyncrasy". I do not believe that they can survive upon "name" alone since, Lord knows, there's a ton of builders out there - all fighting for a corner of a niche industry.

By the way - the small company that I serve as consultant - prospers, in part, upon the personalized customer service that we provide. We view that service as an integral part of the business.

Respectfully,

Richard

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 20 May 2010 7:47 am

Richard,
As I stated in my previous posting, the Lashleys have the right to run their business ANYWAY they so choose, good or bad!
If they choose to run it in such a way that nobody no longer desires to do business with them, that is their perogative.
That's what free enterprise is all about.

I have another poser for you.
Over the years, many pedal steel companies have come and gone. The latest to fold up is Carter. I believe Carter had good PR but the principal left in the company chose to lock it up and liquidate the inventory.
Even Sho~Bud is no longer in business.
However, if the Emmons Company is being run so terribly, how has it managed to stay in business
ALL these years????

Richard Damron · Post by **Richard Damron** » 20 May 2010 8:27 am

Erv -

Once again, I agree - at least with the first part of your post. It is, indeed, the prerogative of the Lashleys to do whatever they deem is necessary in order to prosper. I'm mindful of the old adage that says that "if you live by the sword, you die by the sword". Even so, it's their call.

The analogy regarding Carter guitars is not quite on the money. It was the passing of John Fabian - thus putting the weight of the business upon Ann's shoulders - which precipitated the demise of the company. Ann Fabian apparently felt that she, alone, could not assume the responsibility of continuing in the business. I gathered that John was also a builder, thus an additional person would have been added to the payroll. Sad, but, true.

In regards Sho-Bud and Emmons, I must plead just a bit of ignorance although I do have my own personal opinions concerning those names. There is a mystique surrounding both of those names which escapes me. Bobbe Seymour has told me personally that there was a wide variation in "tone" (hate that word) and playability with Sho-Bud instruments. Does that smack of a lack of quality control? Don't know. Yet, there are those who would buy a Sho-Bud sight-unseen simply because of the name. I, personally, would not order a new guitar from Emmons based solely upon personal experience. To wit: My teacher, Buck Reid, helps Bobbe out when he has the time and Bobbe is short on help. Was in Bobbe's shop one day - one in which there were at least four or five Emmons instruments which I wouldn't give a nickle for - when Buck was finishing up a refurb on a Legrande II. Buck then proceeded to play that particular instrument and it had "it"! The tone of the instrument just grabbed me (we won't speak of Buck's "hands")and I couldn't get enough. I spoke out loud that, if I had the money, I'd buy it on the spot. From over my shoulder I heard Bobbe's voice say "Nice, ain't it?" This, I think, points out the notion that there is a variability between instruments that cannot be denied. And yet, there are those who, as with the Sho-Buds, will buy based upon name alone. It is, I believe, this Brand-name factor which carries a lot of weight when one is considering the purchase of an instrument. It certainly applies to the Emmons name.

I still don't have the money to spend, but I sure wish that I could find that ONE instrument! I'd jump all over it in a heartbeat!

Respectfully,

Richard

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 20 May 2010 8:33 am

Richard,
I can understand Ann's desire to get out from under the responsibilities of running a company but why didn't she seek a buyer for the company and sell it intact? It surely had some "blue sky" value.

I am a Rains fan and when Bob Rains decided to get out of the business, he sold the company intact to Gary Carpenter for a very smooth transition.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 20 May 2010 9:04 am

Erv Niehaus wrote:Richard,
As I stated in my previous posting, the Lashleys have the right to run their business ANYWAY they so choose, good or bad!
If they choose to run it in such a way that nobody no longer desires to do business with them, that is their perogative.
That's what free enterprise is all about.

However, if the Emmons Company is being run so terribly, how has it managed to stay in business
ALL these years????

I'm sure you'd say the same thing if it was YOUR $5000 you paid them over 2 years ago, right Erv?

Richard Damron · Post by **Richard Damron** » 20 May 2010 9:06 am

Erv -

I had forgotten but there's a "sticky" under the "Pedal Steel" section which delineates the status of Carter Guitars. Ann, apparently, has and is seeking a buyer. There's been no (to my knowledge) additional word concerning the business beyond the initial post. Should a sale be made then I'm certain that we'll all be informed of same.

Respectfully

Richard

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 20 May 2010 9:11 am

Richard,
I may be mistaken, but the last word I heard is that she sold the parts to a fellow in Canada and closed down the company.

Richard Damron · Post by **Richard Damron** » 20 May 2010 9:38 am

Erv -

I must plead absolute ignorance regarding a sale. Perhaps there will be a resurgence of the Brand.

Respectfully,

Richard

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 20 May 2010 9:49 am

Richard,
I think I remember getting the details in one of Bobbe's letters.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 20 May 2010 10:38 am

Check with Al Brisco at Steel Guitar Canada if you are looking for sales and service regarding Carter steel guitars.

http://www.steelguitarcanada.com/steels/steeluse.htm

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 20 May 2010 10:45 am

It would appear that Al wound up with the remains of the company.

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 20 May 2010 5:18 pm

I have located a used pedal board in a one of my storerooms. It will need to be polished I can send it free to you by fedex - I am totally embarrassed over the shameful way you have been treated.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 20 May 2010 5:28 pm

Ivano, I am going to check that the new pedal rack that I previously mentioned is still available tomorrow. We will help get it to you at a reduced cost and you will get it fast. Anyone who wants to contribute to this effort please email me. Lets help Ivano.

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 20 May 2010 6:28 pm

Look at how many steel players are watching these threads. I'll bet we'd only need to donate 1 buck each and Ivano could get a gold plated pedal rack. Then his guitar would be very famous, extremely valuable and this story would have a happy ending as it should. I'm in for $1.50! Who's with me? Don

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 20 May 2010 6:28 pm

Billy Carr wrote:Where is this players guitar? This is only helping other builders get new orders. I wouldn't have ordered a new Emmons even before all of this mess. I've heard to many players talk about waiting for one to two years. A person wouldn't order a new car and wait this long. Come on.

Hey Billy Carr. You accused me of trying to put Tommy Young and his crappy tone mod out of business when I complained about his crappy work. I supported my grievance with emails and pictures and YOU accused me of BASHING him because I had a complaint. How do you I differ ???? Emmons has been in business how long??? Tommy has been selling snake oil how long ?? Really ? And what kind of beer can is it this week that he is wood screwing through the cabinets of guitars so they don’t “go out of tune when you mash the pedals”? So we can post here as long YOU agree ???? Is that the message here ????? I aired my problem and you submitted that I was out of line. But its ok for you to bash a company of some 40 years??? Would you like the link or the emails to show what I am talking about ???

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 20 May 2010 7:23 pm

James, this thread is not about you. We are trying to help Ivano here.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 20 May 2010 7:47 pm

Erv, Richard, et al. -

I have no dog in this hunt. I don't claim to have irrefutable command of 'the facts'. All we here in 'the gallery' - non-principals - have to go on is what has been written on these threads. We all have opinions, and what is happening here is simply discourse - opinions - about what has been written about what has happened here.

Emmons certainly has the right to conduct their business any way they please, within certain limits:

1. There are boundaries of acceptable business practices set by the Uniform Commercial Code and other laws regulating commerce in these United States. Any legal claim of violation of those rules must be adjudicated in a court of law.

2. There are boundaries of acceptable personal and ethical practices set by the norms - opinions - of current and potential customers. These are not adjudicated in a court of law, but in the court of public opinion. For the most part, that court of public opinion is the community of pedal steel guitar players, and this forum is a major part of that community.

I've heard it said on these threads that Emmons has a right to conduct business any way they want, and if anybody can show breach of commercial law and prove damages, they should not air it here but take them to court. Aside from the obvious fact that it would be extremely onerous to the point of impossible for most European citizens to do this, let me point out that if anybody thinks they can prove that someone has written falsehoods about something related to this transaction and can prove damages, that is also their remedy - take them to court for libel. It works both ways - the free enterprise system doesn't shield a company from statements of fact, nor statements reflecting opinions of the public. I would hope that none of this requires courts - in my opinion, the main beneficiaries of such lawsuits are lawyers.

The other thing is that if someone really thinks any of the principals here are actually lying about something factual, they should email b0b with evidence or some other reasonable argument with which he could evaluate that charge. Otherwise, I don't see why these kinds of discussions should be censured or closed down. If handled intelligently, perhaps a good discussion can help build bridges between builders and their current/potential customers.

I think most of us obviously want Emmons to do well, and we want this gentleman from Italy to get what he bargained for. This doesn't have to be win/lose. Again, IMHO. I really have no axe to grind.

For the record - everything I have said here is my layman's opinion - I'm no lawyer (thank God).

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 20 May 2010 10:58 pm

I ordered this guitar by phone in 1975 from the Emmons factory. It arrived in a week or two, great customer service, and I've made hundreds of dollars playing it with Opry artists and in clubs and on sessions ever since then and I'm still playing it. But after reading these threads about Emmons on this Forum the last couple years, there's no way I'd do that again.

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 21 May 2010 2:02 am

Sorry Paolo,

This pedal board I found is off an older model and will not fit. I will keep looking!

Carson Leighton · Post by **Carson Leighton** » 21 May 2010 2:45 am

For the life of me, I can't understand why the Emmons Co. doesn't give this man his pedal rack..There has to be a logical reason for this somewhere.I would still like to hear Emmons' side of the story,,but I doubt it that's going to happen on here........Carson

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 21 May 2010 3:24 am

Ok. Everybody has opinions. End of story!

Paolo Ercoli · Post by **Paolo Ercoli** » 21 May 2010 4:56 am

Oh, someone here is still fighting. Sorry.
Well guys, the "Italias", for some of you "bad", for other "good", are almost closing this thing.
Just wait a moment, because Ivano has a last thing to say, he would like to show you his last letter to Emmons Co. (sent 2 days ago for which he didn't get an answer) and then STOP this thing, for sure.
He is happy with his guitar, and for the pedal board there is someone who is going to help him having a new one, I think is Mr. Kevin Hatton, that knows where to find one good and nice. No money are required, Ivano obviously can pay by himself, like he did all these years, but thanks again for your offer, even for 1 dollar. Appreciate it.
So, he want to let you know his last effort to talk with them.
Be patience, and this thing will be finish soon.
thanks everybody.

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 21 May 2010 5:36 am

I think Paolo must be a very good christian man to be so gracious and understanding after being treated in such a shameful way!!

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