3rds and 4ths?

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 18 May 2010 5:03 am

I was told Buddy Emmons goes from 3rd to 4ths and back alot. true or not....Problem is I dont really understand what this means. Wikipedia tells me these 3rds and 4ths are intervals but thats as far as I got with it.

Can anyone share an example that relates to steel guitar or explain the theoretical concept in a way a non-theory oriented person like myself might have a chance at understanding? dar....

thanks
-Ben

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 18 May 2010 6:04 am

On E9, that's what the B pedal does in open position. The moving "suspended" fourth is a big part of the E9's sweet churchy bag of tricks.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 18 May 2010 6:08 am

Ben, if you know your scales, then you can measure the distance between the scale tones in intervals.

Here's the C scale

C D E F G A B C

We'll measure the intervals of all notes from C but the intervals pertain to any notes (you can count them beginning with any note of the scale).

C to D = 2nd
C to E = 3rd
C to F = 4th
C to G = 5th
C to A = 6th
C to B = 7th
C to C = octave

It's really as simple as that. If you want to play a 4th, you need to know the key, the scale of that key and then count up to a 4th. If your chord is C and you play a 4th (C and F), you'll most likely resolve the C to an E. You can also raise the E to an F to get to an F chord.

Josh Haislip · Post by **Josh Haislip** » 18 May 2010 8:09 am

See the Night Life album.

Wild Side of Life

Sittin' and Thinkin'

robert kramer · Post by **robert kramer** » 18 May 2010 9:37 am

This may not be in context - but here is a C Major Scale in Thirds on E9th at the 8th fret. If you want to hear a C Major Scale in Fourths, I can chart that, also - if you want to compare these sounds with BE's recordings.

NP = No Pedals
AB = A & B Pedals (Emmons setup)

admin · Post by **b0b** » 18 May 2010 9:37 am

The interval between your 8th string E and 6th string G# is a third. Your second pedal changes the G# to A, and turns the interval into a fourth.

The interval between your 4th string E lowered to D# and 5th string B is a third. Releasing the knee lever raises the D# to E and turns the interval into a fourth.

There are lots of other ways to do the same thing.

I don't think that Buddy Emmons goes back and forth between those intervals more than most steel players. It's such a common change - everybody does it.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 18 May 2010 9:55 am

b0b wrote: I don't think that Buddy Emmons goes back and forth between those intervals more than most steel players. It's such a common change - everybody does it.

Thats part of what im having trouble understanding but Josh's post and of course the original comment made to me during a lesson lead me to beleive there is some special connection between Emmons and these intervals. perhaps he uses them in a fashion most dont? I dunno...I am trying to figure out what this person was refering to, i dont wanna bother them with an email as its been years since the lesson.

thanks for your help everyone.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 18 May 2010 1:21 pm

Mooney

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 18 May 2010 1:54 pm

Stuart Legg wrote:Mooney

no, Emmons

Josh mentioned Night Life, maybe this'll help, can anyone point out the pertinent moments in the vid?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Htmf8MkuHhE

It was a passing comment in this lesson that didnt get elaborated on, maybe Im just misunderstanding the comment and there no big secret there for me to discover from it but I thought I'd ask.

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 18 May 2010 3:28 pm

I'm no expert on the Big E's style and certainly not on his reasons for the notes he chose to play. But I do know he is a master of chord voicings. He has an uncanny mastery of choosing exactly the right chord for every passage I've every heard him play. It's just incredible to listen to him work his "magic".

He seems to understand the art of using passing chords better than most. Maybe your teacher was referring to Buddy's use of fourths in this way.

Just musing on the subject.

Josh Haislip · Post by **Josh Haislip** » 19 May 2010 5:35 am

I was just speaking of him going from the 3rd note of the scale to the 4th note of the scale. In the key of G from B to C. He does this on the main lick on wild side of life, and sittin and thinking.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 19 May 2010 8:26 am

I never noticed Emmons using the 3rd to a 4th pedal thing more than anybody else but I did notice Mooney quick stomping the heck out of that B pedal, 3rd to a 4th, maj7 to a 1, 6th to a b7th, b5th to a 5th, etc. and vice versa hundreds of times in every song.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 19 May 2010 8:51 am

I apologize for this self-serving post, but this is exactly the kind of thing I talk about in my music theory book.

http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?Produ ... Compositio

If you buy the book and study it, you will understand all this stuff. And if you buy a copy and E-mail me, I'll send you the free steel guitar supplement that explains how the concepts in the book relate to what the pedals do and has some of the things in the book tabbed out.

You can buy the book wherever Mel Bay books are sold. (Since Scotty sells Mel Bay books, I ask that people buy it from him.)