The Art of Clapping

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 4 May 2010 11:59 am

I just need to do a general poll around the country and this forum seems like a good place.

So I keep wondering a couple of things...

1. Where did the Art of Clapping go?
2. Is it ONLY in California?

Somewhere along the way people lost the courtesy to clap or even acknowledge the band... I am shocked how often I find myself playing a PACKED room and at the grand ending of songs one can almost hear the chirping of the crickets!

The crazy thing is that at the end of the gig there are always a bunch of people that come up to us and say how much they loved the music!! But they don't clap a single time in 2 hours!?!?

At a gig the other night there was one lady who tentatively, almost embarrassed, clapped after a song... I thanked her over the mic, and being fed up with this situation, said something along the lines of "Thank you for the applause, it really makes the performer feel good to hear that"

after that the whole room erupted after every song... it was like they need permission or something!?!? I have seen this all across the state in California and I recently went and played in St. Croix and the same thing happened.... and I see this with all kinds of bands around here....

One band I play with has a great following of older, retired people (it is a classic country band) and those people are much better than the younger generations in general.

Considering I don't get to play around the country as much as I would like I just wanted to ask everyone if you have seen this type of ambivalence and apathy out of crowds too.....

I am 32 so wasn't around in the 'good old' days but i would assume it was better then??

Thanks!

Andy Jones · Post by **Andy Jones** » 4 May 2010 12:38 pm

Clapping is alive and well in Mississippi.Most of the shows I attend usually have a crowd of older people who really appreciate good music,and they show it.They clap when a musician finishes a ride or when a singer really puts on a show.

I can't handle the clapping to the music,though.That was one of my main beefs when I was a regular bluegrass picker.They would start clapping to the beat,very few would be in time and it would really screw you up big time.

Andy

Richard Paul · Post by **Richard Paul** » 4 May 2010 1:24 pm

I think most young people are on penicilin today. Couldn't resist that one. Hear in Iowa they clap, was just at a steel guitar show in Marshalltown Iowa yesterday and they applauded. Some good steel playing too.

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 4 May 2010 1:29 pm

ha!

glad to hear...

It is not every show.. but an amazing amount of them.... and I think people in California are generally very concerned about being "cool" which has something to do with it....

Richard Paul · Post by **Richard Paul** » 4 May 2010 1:31 pm

Sorry I forgot my manners the steel player were Bob Harris, Chad Burgess, Lowell Davis, Roger Miller, Lefty Schrage, Dean Thompson, Dan Hedlund, Vic Switzer and Kirk Dighton.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 4 May 2010 1:58 pm

I think it's important to make the distinction between a steel guitar show and a 'regular gig'.

At a steel show, several things come into play. Look around -- most of the attendees have grey hair and the average age is 50 or more. That generation (my generation and older) is just more likely to show their appreciation by rewarding a good solo with a round of applause. The folks are there to HEAR THE STEEL GUITAR and they WANT TO HAVE A REASON TO APPLAUD. It's WHY THEY CAME.

At 'regular gigs' there is a wide variety of audience members. When I play shows (like local 'Opry' shows) the folks are mostly seated, mostly older, and tend to be listening to the solos, rather than shaking their jiggly parts. When I play bars, for a mixed but younger audience, it is much as Josh described. People are there for a different agenda: to drink; to meet that honky tonk angel; and the music is secondary (or even tertiary).

Like others have observed, it is very age dependent, in favor of older attendees showing their appreciation with applause. I can play EXACTLY the same solo and get a rousing round of applause at a steel show or at a venue when the audience is older, then turn around and play the same thing at the local honky tonk and nobody even notices.

I only do this for the money so I don't really care whether they applaud or not.

Stephen Silver · Post by **Stephen Silver** » 4 May 2010 5:19 pm

Josh, great to hear that you are a busy guy!!

A geat, but rather forward response, I have often used when there is a dearth of applause.

"Applause is like a meal to musicians....thanks for the snack"

Use it at your own risk.....smiles

SS

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 4 May 2010 5:37 pm

Larry -- you only do this for the money? I assume that was a joke, right?

As for clapping, it happens a lot when my band plays but when I do quiet solo gigs it is rare enough to sound strange, even when I'm playing really well. So I always tell the clappers, "Don't awaken the musician when he's dreaming!"

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 4 May 2010 5:40 pm

And Larry -- you can play "exactly the same solo?" Why the hell would you ever want to do that? How antithetical to the true spirit of music!

Paul E. Brennan · Post by **Paul E. Brennan** » 5 May 2010 2:28 am

And Larry -- you can play "exactly the same solo?" Why the hell would you ever want to do that? How antithetical to the true spirit of music!

There are certain solos which I try and play exactly as originally recorded - Look At Us springs to mind - because I wouldn't dream of even attempting to change them.

Other songs are fair game to me to play whatever I can think of on the night.

Maybe this deserves a separate thread - do you faithfully (try to) replicate the original recording or just go for it and improvise the heck out of it?

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 5 May 2010 4:48 am

Lets see, Barry
Did you see the smilies? That DOES indicate a joke, you know.

All I said was I CAN play the same solo. Can YOU?

Whatever, dude. You might want to lighten up. You'll live longer.

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 5 May 2010 4:57 am

Sorry, Larry. No, for some reason I didn't see the smilies. You had me worried for a minute there.

Can I play the same solo twice? Depends on how long it is. I have a pretty good melodic memory, but I don't ever do that, so I don't really know...

As for lightening up, you're right. I try every day, but I'm still carrying too much anger. I spend too much time reading the news -- makes me hostile. Sorry. Working on that though...

Steve Becker · Post by **Steve Becker** » 5 May 2010 5:21 am

It seems to me that applause started becoming unfashionable when DJs started taking over in clubs. People obviously don't feel the need to applaud DJs, and unfortunately it carried over to live performances. I've also noticed that people(around here at least) don't stay on the dance floor between songs, unless you run them together. So, a band kind of loses it's momentum quite often. No dancers and no applause makes for a long nite!
And, no it's not that the band sucks, although in some cases this greatly contributes to the problem!

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 5 May 2010 6:03 am

I've noticed that if you play a large club where they serve dinner,you are less likely to get any reaction because they are eating and you are noise in the background.

If it's a medium sized club with a few hundred,you might get scattered applause by not always.

If it's a small town nasty beer joint and you play What A Way to Live,Green Snakes.Rawhide etc. you'll get applause,drinks and maybe someone will help load out but not always.

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 5 May 2010 6:25 am

Here in white bread New England: Sadly, mostly one and three...arrrrgh!

Two and four: priceless.

PS: Applause is still in fashion at most Western Caravan gigs...Club dates...not so much.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 5 May 2010 7:17 am

I played an hour long Hawaiian set last Saturday and the audience clapped after every song.
But then, that's Minnesota nice.

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 5 May 2010 7:19 am

Evidently we sound better than I think we do because we get a lot of applause.

Scott Shewbridge · Post by **Scott Shewbridge** » 5 May 2010 9:39 am

Josh,

I've noticed the same thing.

Last summer I went to a Buck Owens birthday bash at a fairly popular club in the Mission District in San Francisco. At the start of the show around 7, the crowd was mixed - half the folks were my age and older (~50+), many wearing boots and such. The other half was the young and fashionably tattooed crowd, neo-swingsters. The music was good. Dave Zirbel was on steel - sounded great. The crowd was appreciative and more than a few hoots and hollers accompanied the clapping.

At about 10 PM, the boots crowd decided to pack it up. When they left, so did the applause. I love the music and decided to stay, but I felt bad for the band. Between songs, people just kept on talking and twirling their mixed drinks. There seemed to be no understanding of the importance of the interaction between performers and audience.

I experienced a similar thing at the Grand Ole Opry last year. Marty Stuart was the featured performer. The night before, Cherryholmes was the guest band, which might have had a larger draw. The crowd on our night was pretty small (ground floor was clearly not full). No offense intended, but the audience seemed to have been bussed in from nursing homes. There were two teenaged girls and their parents sitting next to my sister and I. I think we might have been the only ones clapping. I thought I could see disappointment on the faces of the performers, though they are professionals and did their best to keep the energy and spirit alive. It kinda felt like trying to blow heat into the embers of the video christmas fireplace.

When I was in grade school, we were taught when and how to clap. Unfortunately, I think what I'm seeing is reflective of another "Video Killed the Radio Star" transition for our society. As more and more of our musical experiences becomes passive consumption of recordings, which are heard everywhere, all the time, fewer people seem aware of the special and transcendent interactive experience that a live performer and audience can achieve and what they can do to help bring it out and/or squash it.

You can learn plenty from a Gospel recording, but it ain't the same as the real thing. For me those transcendent moments seem to come less often, but they are the reason I keep doing and going to live performances. It is more than just the sounds.

Richard Damron · Post by **Richard Damron** » 9 May 2010 6:51 am

No one has mentioned this so perhaps I should.

New to the South, I find it VERY disconcerting when people break into applause IN THE MIDDLE OF A VOCAL OR TUNE!!!!!!!!!!! Drives me to distraction. And that's what it is - a pain in the butt distraction.

Colm Chomicky · Post by **Colm Chomicky** » 9 May 2010 7:33 am

It's hard for the audience to clap when they are busy loading the tip jar with fist-fulls of dollars

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 9 May 2010 7:49 am

Me too, Richard!

Then there's the singer/bandleader with whom I did some gigs recently who thought it raised the band's credibility if he occasionally strode onto the stage during a band feature and incited the crowd to applaud at the end of someone's solo - the audience would feel duty-bound to respond, but clearly had no idea why they were clapping!

I think the singer in question must have visited either the Opry or a TV show taping at some point - I don't know he thought he was! Larry may know who I'm talking about....

Scott Shewbridge · Post by **Scott Shewbridge** » 9 May 2010 8:21 am

Rojer - What kind of music were you playing? I was taught and usually see audiences clapping at the end of a solo; especially for improvised jazz. I thought that convention carried over into western swing, country and bluegrass. It certainly does in rock. Maybe it doesn't, I don't know.

For classical chamber or symphonic music, the convention here is to not clap at all until the entire piece is over (i.e., don't even clap between movements, as this interupts the relationship between the conductor and the orchestra).

Is that the convention for country/jazz/swing/rock where you perform?

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 9 May 2010 8:27 am

Scott Shewbridge wrote: "As more and more of our musical experience becomes passive consumption of recordings, which are heard everywhere, all the time, fewer people seem aware of the special and transcendent interactive experience that a live performer and audience can achieve and what they can do to help bring it out and/or squash it."

Wow. I've been trying to articulate that for years, and I've never seen it said better. Very sad, but very, very, very true.

But it is the best of times as well as the worst of times. My eight piece band gets applause and attention and a full house every single time we play anywhere. Yet all the other smaller musical acts I am a part of , which are really just as good musically, have trouble getting any of those things. Maybe people notice the big band because there is more to look at? Who knows. I've been playing gigs for decades, but, to me, the music business is still a mystery... Thanks, Scott. Can I quote you elsewhere?

admin · Post by **b0b** » 9 May 2010 8:34 am

There's no better feeling than spontaneous applause at the end of a solo. I love it when that happens (not very often).

A lot of people at the wineries where I play are tourists. They don't know how to act. It's funny - they're getting drunk but they also feel like they don't have permission to relax because the environment is presented as "high class".

Scott Shewbridge · Post by **Scott Shewbridge** » 9 May 2010 8:38 am

BH - Yes, as long as you continue to make all required subject/verb agreements for me.