ZB's

Jason Williams · Post by **Jason Williams** » 15 Apr 2010 3:20 pm

Might anyone owning or having owned a ZB be able talk about the virtues of this axe to a newbie? (providing it has been well maintained over the years)

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 15 Apr 2010 3:30 pm

ZBs are great, but I would not recommend one for a newer player.

Jason Williams · Post by **Jason Williams** » 15 Apr 2010 4:24 pm

Any particular reason?

Roger Guyett · Post by **Roger Guyett** » 15 Apr 2010 5:06 pm

Jason Williams wrote:Any particular reason?

Im a relative newcomer to the pedal steel and I own an older 1960s ZB that I bought because I love the look and sound of those guitars. I also really enjoy the mechanical aspects of pedal steel guitars and the way they work - Ive had various parts made for the guitar and have access to a machine shop.
I cant speak for the later ZB guitars but the earlier ones are much more difficult to work on in comparison to a modern guitar. You have to be patient and invest some time in them if you want to change the copedent or adjust how the guitar plays.
If you're learning to play (as I am) its considerably easier to deal with a more modern instrument. I think a lot of people would not recommend them to a newer player because of the adjustment/mechanical/playability issues. Mine's a pretty early one - not sure how the mechanics really changed. Im sure the later ones are easier to deal with but they are designed using slightly different principals than a lot of guitars.
All that being said, I bought one! And of course, once setup, theyre wonderful.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 15 Apr 2010 5:15 pm

well put, roger. it's nice to see some newer players can still look at a steel and make sense of a logical mechanical function! seems to be somewhat of a dying breed lately.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 15 Apr 2010 5:56 pm

If you get one that has been PROPERLY set up and maintained than I would recomend one. Unfortunately original ZB's are THE most neglected and ill maintained steels I've ever seen. There have been many who have been restored by Greg Jones and Billy Knowles (some by myself) that are in new condition. I build NEW ZB's (www.retrosteelguitar.net). We use modern modern quick change bell cranks in the new ones (top half of changer is the same)to alleviate the mechanical issues of the old ones. The old ones play excellent once they have been set up. Chuck McGill's ZB listed for sale on the Forum right now is in A-1 mechanical condition. I would NOT recomend one to a beginer unless its planned to be sent to Greg or Billy for proper setup. I have seen so many ruined mechanicly by people who thought they knew what they were doing.

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 15 Apr 2010 6:42 pm

I have nothing particular to add to what Kevin and others just said, except to jump up and down on the furniture, hyperventilate and shout, "PAY ATTENTION! DO NOT DISMISS THE WISDOM OF THE AGES THAT IS FREELY AND PHILANTHROPICALLY OFFERED! IGNORE IT AT YOUR OWN PERIL! STEP AWAY FROM THE ZB, TENDERFOOT!!!"

I am both a multiple-ZB-owner and perpetual beginner, not to mention mechanically hopeless. I am also a self-appointed cheerleader and evangelist for their sound: The Ultimate. I've been through seven, have two great doublenecks now, but idiotically let two great ones away. (Your old Greg-Jones-ified Phoenix-made SD-10 #0612, Chuck M., and S-10 #0248, my first--which I should have stood pat on.)

But unless you are blessed by the ministrations of Drs. Hatton, Knowles, Jones or their rarefied coven of Wizards (to mix a metaphor), do yourself a big favor and start on something simple, professional (probably recent) and still wonderful: BMIs (undervalued, underpraised and still part of the Zane Beck legacy) or GFIs, to name the two favorites from my personal experience. (Others will no doubt nominate other worthy brands.)

You wouldn't start drivers' ed with a Ferrari; be equally circumspect about starting pedal steel on a ZB unless you have a World-Class Pit Crew. Or unless you have personally designed, assembled, launched, commanded and returned safely to Earth at least a half dozen successful manned lunar missions.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 15 Apr 2010 9:00 pm

A new player probably won't have settled on their final copedent, and a ZB is certainly not the type of steel to experiment with different copedents on.
It took many hours of tinkering before I was happy with the playability of my ZB, as it was virtually unplayable when I bought it.

Bill Ladd · Post by **Bill Ladd** » 16 Apr 2010 4:02 am

richard burton wrote:...It took many hours of tinkering before I was happy with the playability of my ZB, as it was virtually unplayable when I bought it.

Might be worth pointing out to the original poster that Mr. Burton is a highly trained machinist by trade, has hand-built many steel guitars, and has close to two decades experience on the instrument.

His "many hours" would certainly translate to days, weeks or longer for one less skilled.

Jason Williams · Post by **Jason Williams** » 16 Apr 2010 11:45 am

Thanks to all for the input! That's what I love about this "place."

Chris Erbacher · Post by **Chris Erbacher** » 17 Apr 2010 7:50 am

buy it and join the club...link it to a silverface fender twin with jbl e-120's and auricaps under the hood and revel in tone heaven...no matter how much bs you have to deal with now and then...when you get it balanced and playing right, you will be grinning from ear to ear...that's what you want right?

Geoff Cline · Post by **Geoff Cline** » 17 Apr 2010 11:39 am

Just put on your Muck Boots and wade on in...Sure there's danger in the search for tone but you chose to play pedal steel guitar...You knew the job was dangerous when you took it!

But listen well to the words of Mr. Elder...he knows of what he speaks and he has already felt (and survived) your pain...

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 17 Apr 2010 11:57 am

THe consolation is that they are THE best sounding steel guitar ever made.

Paul Frank Bloomfield · Post by **Paul Frank Bloomfield** » 18 Apr 2010 12:10 am

I totally agree with Kevin,the best sounding steel ever ! ( I am biased I suppose, but he's right !)
Frank. Corfu

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 18 Apr 2010 3:08 am

Kevin Hatton wrote:THe consolation is that they are THE best sounding steel guitar ever made.

You're not biased in any way Kevin?

I have had several ZB's, and tonally they are very good indeed. Big maple bodies, the long key head and the changer cap help give them this distintive bell-like tone (IMHO). The mechanical principle works fine (multi string pulls always end up getting to pitch simultaneously. However, a bit like a push pull, once set up and working don't touch it except for tuning and an occasional lube job. Wish to hell that I had kept one of my guitars that Zane made to special order for me. It was a beautiful looker.

PS - The ZB student steel guitar is probably the best kept secret tone-wise. They sound awesome.

Bobby Burns · Post by **Bobby Burns** » 18 Apr 2010 6:06 am

My ZB plays as smooth as any guitar I've had. Never needs anything tuned except an occasional tweek of the head tuners. It is the best sounding guitar I've had. Unfortunately, it is also the heaviest. I'd agree that they are not for the guy who wants to try out every copedant change he hears about, but pick a copedant, have it set up right, and just enjoy playing it, and you'll be fine.

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 20 Apr 2010 5:19 am

What they said

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 20 Apr 2010 7:07 am

Chuck would know!

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 20 Apr 2010 10:25 am

ZBs sound pretty good. I kinda like 'em. Mine is the best sounding instrument I have ever played on the planet...bar none. On the other hand, a real PIA to work on. I like it so much, I'm thinking of selling my other steel, one of them "F" steels, and playing only the ZB, until I can get a Desert Rose D-10.
Hey Chuck, congrats on the recent ZB bifecta sale!
Duncan

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 20 Apr 2010 6:18 pm

Hi Duncan!

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 21 Apr 2010 10:44 am

Hi back atcha, Russ!

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 21 Apr 2010 11:26 am

1969 ZB Custom. Thanks Chuck and Greg! Duncan ... I'm back in the ZB family!:)

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 21 Apr 2010 12:18 pm

OH MY!!! Russ, you have squarely stepped in it. Great score. Play it in great health, my friend.
Duncan

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 21 Apr 2010 12:42 pm

Duncan Hodge wrote:OH MY!!! Russ, you have squarely stepped in it.
Duncan

I think that's what my wife said when I was cleaning up after the dogs.

The fact that Greg had set up the ZB was a huge reason I decided to get it.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 21 Apr 2010 1:30 pm

Jason. Sorry to steal your thread. ZB's are great if set up well and left alone. That's how I like them.

Russ

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