Eb or D# .......?

Carson Leighton · From: N.B. Canada

I wasn't sure which section to post this in, as it pertains to both music and playing as well as tuning...
A well known music teacher in this area said D# is the wrong term..The proper name is Eb...Is this correct?... Carson

Joshua Grange · From: Los Angeles, California

It all depends on the context.
For example in the key of 'E', the correct term for the seventh note of the major scale is D#.
But people RARELY talk about a D# Major scale.
We generally talk about the Eb major scale.
Commonly, we use the keys of C, C#, D, Eb, E, F, F#, G, Ab, A, Bb, B.
But guess what?
There's no right or wrong. C# still sounds just like Db.
It all depends on the context. Sometimes a Db major scale will make sense in the right context of a song; perhaps one that started in Bb for example.
As long as you don't mix sharps and flats within a major scale.
But shoot, I do that all the time! It's more natural fo me to think of an Eb when I'm in the key of E than a D#. Go figure.

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

In music theory the key of E flat is written in 3 flats. Not sharps. Music theory like electronics is not an exact science. I am sure every one is thrilled to know this. Very Happy

Carson Leighton · From: N.B. Canada

I am pretty sure that on the E9 string sets,,the note was referred to on the package as Eb. This is the way I learned it and was probably wrong, or was it? The note is called D# in the major scale of E, and this only makes sense,,but the E9 chromatic tuning is another issue..It really doesn't matter, because we all know it is the same note,,as are all flats and sharps, just the context of how we use them,,and the music teacher may not have said that in a blanketed statement either. I will talk to her again...Carson,,have a good day...

Morgan Scoggins · From: Georgia, USA

Every musical scale has 7 notes, that is all the notes have a letter prefix such as A, B, C,D, E or perhaps E flat.You can't have two notes of the same scale starting with the same letter. Thats why , in the key of G , we have an F# instead of a g flat. Calling it a g flat would give us two G notes in a g scale. In the E scale, we call the 7th tone a D# since calling it an E flat would give us two E notes in the scale.
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Ken Pippus · From: Langford, BC, Canada

In the place where the distinction is probably most critical for most of us, the second string is clearly a D#, the major seventh note of the E major scale, not an Eb, as it is often notated. On a piano, they are the same note. The whole hubbub about tuning pedal steels revolves around the fact that, harmonically, they are two different beasts.

KP

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

Many bands i played in gave the keys in sign language to save confusion. For instance the singer would call out C and a member would say c? no c.
So he would show a fist meaning no sharps or flats key of C. If in the key of G he would hold up one finger as G is written in one sharp. 2 fingers up for D.
One finger pointied down for F,two for B flat and so on.
Please excuse me while i go take an asprin. Smile

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

For more than you probably wanted to know about this, try this thread - http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=35908 - and I hope nobody tries to revive that thread. It died an ignominious death almost four years ago, and I think we should let it RIP. Wink

To me, what to call the note halfway between E and D is: if it's a major scale tone - D# when you're playing in sharped keys like G, D, A, E, and B; and Eb in flatted keys like F, Bb, Eb, Ab, and Db. In C, you can call it whatever you want, and the choice of the key signature of F# or Gb is arbitrary, since they both have 6 sharps/flats, respectively. If you want to call the key F#, call it D#, if you want to call the key Gb, call it Eb. Of course, it could be an accidental, and then it's more complex yet.

Some folks argue that since most of us look at the tuning we put on the front neck to be E9, that this effectively sets the scale upon which to look at the notes - E. Therefore, they call it D#.

Some folks label the lever that drops the string 4/8 E one-half tone E=>Eb, in recognition of the fact that the function is to lower, or flat, the E. So they call the note Eb.

To me, it depends on how you're using the note. And now I'm really gonna try to just shut up about this from here on, regardless of what anybody says in response. Wink

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

It's an enharmonic note, in that it's the same note with two different names. Me, I go with C# rather than Db.
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Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

As a side note this is a great way to generate really secure passwords. i.e. Type out any scale except C, with each note followed by the number equivalent. As in a G scale: G1A2B3C4D5E6F#7G This works just as well with Gb instead of F# for the 7th tone. Check it out: http://www.passwordmeter.com/
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Custom Made Covers for Steel Guitars & Amps at Sharp Covers Nashville

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

In some cases,it´s important to distinguish between,
say...A flat & G sharp,although they sound the same ;
the mix-up gets confusing when working w/ the
theoretical side of music ; it´s especially confusing
for the student getting into diatonic scales,harmony
by function etc.McUtsi

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

In addition to the worthy comments above, all quite correct, we should note that in classical and concert band music the distinction often appears becaus wind instruments add a finger to flat a note while stringed instruments add a finger to sharp a note.

You will never see music written for wind instruments in the key of D# but VERY OFTEN in the key of Eb. Not necessarily so for stringed instruments, but the key of D# shows a lot of accidentals and is far clumsier to write. Perhaps this is the reason for your teacher's comment.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I took the meaning of the original post to be note name, not key name. But I see from Dave's insightful comment that it's not absolutely unambiguous.

The convention is to call the key whose home note is halfway between E and D to be Eb, not D#, because the Eb major scale is notated so much less onerously with three flats - Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C, D, Eb - as opposed to 9 sharps - D#, E#, F##, G#, A#, B#, C##, D#. I would completely agree with the instructor if (s)he meant to not name the key of Eb as D#. It's a convention, but I think a smart and practical one.

Sherman Willden · From: Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA

My apologies if this sounds ridiculous as I am probably way off base and this is getting way out there.

In the key of E, do we not sometimes refer to the I7 D# of the E chord as the E flatted seventh chord? Why isn't the G7b9 a G7#2? Can it be a ##8? By the definitions that I find the G7b9 contains the root (g), the major third (b), the perfect fifth (d), the dominant seventh (f) and the flatted 9 (a-flat)
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It is easy to play the steel guitar. Playing so that the audience finds it pleasing is the difficult act.

Ransom Beers · Posted 12 Apr 2010 6:36 am

I like pancakes ,flattened!!

Carson Leighton · From: N.B. Canada

I like the pancake answer... Very Happy

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

Herb said:

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

see how it is, you try to C Sharp and you end up being D Ranged....

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

Its the same note period...We call it a sharp if the key signature denotes it..If the key of Eflat is denoted in the staff, we wouldn't refer to it as a D# note...Of course is the signature is D#...Well...there ya have it...Nuff said... Whoa!

Lets just measure the correct number cycles for all the different tempered tunings and call it a....16359.6?
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Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Joshua Grange · From: Los Angeles, California

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