Steel / Tele Amp set up

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Well I have stumbled on to a combination that works very well.
As some of you know I have been in the habit of lugging a heavy steel amp and a Fender twin around for playing Tele and steel.
This month I got a Push Pull Emmons and managed to acquire a Ken Fox 4-10 5D6 amp...
The amp is light by my standards and works great for a Tele, It also has 2 channels, bright and normal.
Fooling around I tried my steel through it and it sounds super except a little bright for my taste.
So I turn the tone knob on my Emmons and lo and behold bingo.
I am thinking this is just like the tone knob on my Telecaster..Works real good.
Now I plug both in and use the tone knobs to balance them out.
I have a 30 watt loud clean amp that weighs about the same as a Nash 112,
I can play steel with a guitar in my lap... AND....
Guaranteed this is a step up in the tone dept.
Thank You once again Mr. Fox

_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

Thanks, Ken ! You got the last of the first run of these amps. We hope to do another run this year, just waiting of the last of the steel amps to sell before we make a big investment in parts to do both amps again!

The 5D6B has been a great success for everyone that has bought one. A real tone machine for sure. We are excited about it and the new steel amp as well. Just getting back to the basics of sound and it seems to be making everyone very happy so far.

Rich Hlaves · From: Wildomar, California, USA

Ken M,

I have one of these little darlings (since October '09)as well and it goes everywhere with me. It will get studio use next week. One of the things I did to warm up my guitar channel a bit was to swap the 12AY7 tube in the V1 slot for a 12AX7 for just a bit more gain. It made the amp a little more expressive for 6 string guitar. It you are running the Tele through the bright channel the swap would be with V2.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the tone, sound or playability of this amp in stock form. This is just one of the cool features Ken Kox built into the design.

I love my Fox Vintage 5D6B amp! Way to go Ken!

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Ken M,

You provide a good rebuttal to those Forumites (a majority, seemingly) who maintain that steels don't need/shouldn't have tone controls.

Edward Byrne · From: Foxford, County Mayo, Ireland

Interesting point Brint, but i wonder how many guitar players actually use their tone controls on their guitars, as i have always considered the tone control on, say a telecaster, to be a tone suppressor rather than a true tone control, lacking consistent treble roll off, i have never in my 35 years of gigging used the tone controls on my guitars, but in fairness, i can not comment on the tone control of an Emmons, cos i ever tried one, but i think i would be right in saying, that most steel guitarists would use a pre amp, between their amps and volume pedals, or possibly their amps and steels, so would that not negate the reason for onboard steel guitar tone controls, and i only ever use my volume control on my 6 string guitar, when i dont have a volume pedal between the guitar and amp, and even then its another tone supressant, as this causes loss of depth and bottom end, [unless you use a hilton] just my thoughts, you may disagree, thats what the forum is for, Eddie

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

If you have a tone control on your instrument, you can use it or not--your choice. If you don't have one, you can't use it.

For many years I never used the tone controls on my six-string guitars either. But now I do, and I use the tone control on the only steel I have that has one (a Sho-bud Super Pro).

True, a tone control on a guitar (six-string or steel) only reduces highs above a given frequency set by the capacitor value. But that can be a useful function. And not necessarily the same as even tweaking the "Treble" control on the amp.

I'm curious what you mean by "lacking consistent treble rolloff". Are you referring to the taper of the pot?

In my case, my steel rig consists of : steel, volume pedal, amp. My guitar rig consists of: guitar, overdrive pedal, amp. I use amp reverb for both instruments. Variable amounts of high frequency content controlled from the instrument without having to go to the amp is something I now find useful. YMMV.

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

I got lucky-My rig these days is a Mullen RP U12(no tone control),a Nashville B-bender Tele,and either a Session 500 or a NV112,and this ancient script-logo MXR Dynacomp that came back from the shop with no low end whatever.Thought it was useless until I remembered that the amp settings that I like for steel turn even Tele sparkle to mud.Soooo...The guitar goes thru the Dynacomp to an A/B box,the steel thru an Alesis 3630 into the other side of the A/B and then direct into the amp.The volume pedal is connected to the "VP patch",and I play guitar sitting at the steel,since I play steel a lot more (didn't say better) than 6 string.The lack of low end in the Dynacomp counteracts the bass-heavy EQ settings on the amp and I get excellent sound out of both 6 string and steel,with justa little limiting on steel and just enough more on 6 string.Plus,I get to use PSG volume pedal technique on the Tele AND switch instruments without acting like a jack-in-the-box,as well as leaving guitar amp,pedalboard,et cetera at home. Very Happy

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

A tone control on a Fender Telecaster works really good and I use it all the time for fine adjustments,
little more, little less, But I probably play a tad sharper tone and cleaner that many do??
I like that Bite from a Telecaster and Fender Twin.
Never had a tone control on a steel until recently... just tried it and like it.
A P/P Emmons can also have some serious bite and will !! part you hair nice and clean.
The more effects or distortion you use the less effective a tone control becomes.
For clean sounds I use the guitar vol & tone.
With distortion I use a vol pedal after the effects to maintain an even level of distortion at different volumes.
Same with steel if you want to make it easier to get a fuzz on the steel, put the fuzz box before the volume pedal...
I will occasionaly run an old tube driver on the steel or a BoBro but not to offen.
I play clean most of the time but, my guitar effects pedal board has a Barber tone press parallel compressor,
danelectro echo, Sparkle drive, OCD drive then volume pedal. The drives are set so one has a little distortion, one has a little more and both on at the same time give an over loaded verge of feed back sound, at any volume. Ah How how how Cool

_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

tone control on a guitar is a tone sucker. they make pots that remove the pot from the circuit when cranked all the way forward. im too lazy to bother installing em tho (so I guess the tone suck must not be THAT bad...hehe)

on the other hand i like the tone control on my fender psg. boo-wah, and ice pick removal

edit: Ken that is a beautiful beautiful rig you got there.

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

The Vol and Tone controls on my Tele are as such that I can turn the volume way down and it sounds crisp.
The tone rolls off highs but sounds clear still.
This is because I am using almost a strait into the amp type connection with very little effects.
If you plug strait into your amp and then try the guitar controls they should work nicely on a Telecaster.
The controls on my Strat do not work as well.
Most of the stuff that sucks tone in my experience is between the guitar and amp.
If this doesn't work then I recommend another Twin to help even out the sound.. HA!

_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

I'm not a huge cork sniffer when it comes to tone suckage, but sticking a potentiometer (tone and volume controls) into the circuit is a degredation of signal. For this reason many wire their pickup straight to the jack (Neil Young being a particularly toneful example). I havent done this so I cant say what kind of difference it makes.

Now it would be hard to do without a volume control for me personally, but tone control I can live without for sure. Ive just been to lazy to swap n that removable tone pot.

I'm just repeating the stuff Ive read, and it kinda makes sense to me having built a few circuits, but we all do what works for us, and even tho this stuff sounds logical and like a great idea to me...i havent bothered to do it yet.

Ken Fox · From: Nashville GA USA

I use a push pull pot to bypass both the tone and volume controls on my Tele. Most of the time I forget to do it (I use a volume pedal at all times when playing guitar). It only makes a very small difference in tone, just a hair brighter with the controls bypassed.

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

You could also simply use a Fender "No Load" tone pot (available as a replacement part) - that one completely takes the tone pot out of the circuit (by mechanically bypassing the carbon trace of the tone pot) when fully open!

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Ken,
I just got a Tele (American Deluxe) that looks really similar to yours.

Does yours have S-1 switching (parallel/series button in volume knob)?
I like the feel of the tone and volume pots on this guitar a lot!

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Hey Clete,
My Tele is a reg USA Tele with no upgraded wiring,
No anti hum pick ups or technology, just a strait guitar like they made in the beginning.
They are kind of hard to find new,especially in a 2 tone.
I lined the cavitys with copper foil.
The Vol. Tone work well on a Telecaster and my Emmons has a tone bypass switch as do most P/P's.
The distortion pedals I go back and forth twisting the knobs, but I play clean most of the time.
The Sparkle drive and Tone Press both use a parallel circuit,
Its like running two amps one dirty one clean and balancing between, I like it.
The Barber Tone Press compressor is the same, one channel set how much compression and the other channel is clean and then balance between all in one stomp box.
It is the only compressor I have found that gives a nice compression with out changing the fundamental sound or attack, and I like a good attack.
Like a Telecaster through a Fender Twin
Crack and Snap !
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes

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