Does our focus on the past limit the appeal of Lap Steel

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 18 Mar 2010 1:47 pm

Getting back into lap steel after a few year absence, and really having a blast. I'm very focused though on creating my own sound and carving out something new. But the recent post of Sleep Walk got me thinking. Yes, it is a great tune and so is western swing, hawaiian, early country and all the music we associate with the history of this instrument.

But I wonder that if the fascination we have with the past, and the tunings of the past, and the tunes of the past are preventing some/many of us from pushing the boundaries of the instrument and exposing it to a younger group.

If you are like me, you loved the solos of David Lindley on those jackson brown and linda ronstadt wihtout realizing it was a lap steel. I hear the stuff that Steiner is doing and I think ...wow! and of course Ben Harper.

But these fine players seem to be in the minority. I don't see a lot of discussion about how Lindley achieved his sound, or the tabs around Mercury Blues. I'm more likely to see people recommend the best tuning for Steel Guitar Rag than I am to see something about the latest Ben Harper song, or some of the folks like Xavier Rudd. In fact, I almost never see anything on modern players like Xavier.

Why does this instrument engender so much attention on the past to the detriment of the present? Or maybe I'm just seeing things wrong. Maybe there is a lot of talk that I'm missing.

As an example, every guitarist owes something to Chuck Berry, but I would say that conversations around Chuck Berry's guitar technique do not crowd out conversations about more modern players. Why so with lap steel?

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 18 Mar 2010 2:20 pm

Thanks for the kind words Bill!

When I started playing lap steel seriously I had already been making my own music for many many years, including music for ballet, multi media, TV, etc, in addition to songs for the various bands I played in over the years.
So for me it was like picking up another instrument, or "voice" if you like, and incorporating it into my own music.

I did NOT want to become another musician simply because I had started playing another instrument. I have nothing but the greatest respect for all the great virtuosos of the past, be it Joaquin Murphy or Jerry Byrd, and I listen to "old time" steel music with great interest and enjoyment.

But, I am 51 now and I am not going to spend the next 10 years trying to learn how to sound like them, I have too much of my own music left in me to spend that much of whatever time I have left on trying to sound like someone else (never been any good at that anyway, be it on guitar or lap steel, hehe...).

Over here I notice a lot of players who start playing lap steel and apparently also think more or less the same way I do. Some will seriously study the roots of the instrument, while others will spend time learning about it while not 'becoming' it.

So, to try and answer your question, I don't think the focus on the past that you may notice on this forum limits the appeal of the lap steel. I believe most will find it interesting and educational, digest as much as they can or choose to, and keep using the lap steel the way they want to.
There's been an eruption of interest in the lap steel (and dobro) over here in the last 5-7 years, and players seems to take it in whatever direction they please.

This forum is a great resource and very important, I love it dearly - but let's not overestimate its influence, the 'young ones' do as they please no matter what we write in here....

Worst case scenario is that it may limit the appeal of the forum, not of the lap steel.

Tom Cooper · Post by **Tom Cooper** » 18 Mar 2010 4:31 pm

Point taken. For me, being 42 yrs old I grew up with rock and roll. Got into country in my thirties and now western swing and rockabilly. For me all the old 40's stuff is fresh and new. I am kinda bored hearing guys play electric guitar on a steel. I guess thats why I dont like sacred steel so much even though once in a while I cop some of the rock and sacred guys licks once in a while. I play with some guys that do r&r and r&b plus some country and swing type tunes and get to do a little of each style, but I am quite enamored with the old steel sounds. I just think that that is the way a steel guitar is supposed to sound. Of course people luv to experiment and thank God they do. Variety is the spice of life. Around here all you pretty much hear is the alt-country(alt not to be callin it country)safe stuff and the Dave Lindley sound. Not much honkin growlin 6th chord swing steel. They play really good I might add, but just not my style. I think there are way more alt/rock guys than country/rockabilly/swing. I dont get out of central florida much so my perspective is kinda limited. Great post, TC

Gene Warner · Post by **Gene Warner** » 18 Mar 2010 5:50 pm

It seems that there have always been a whole lot of followers, and only a few leaders. There were more people trying to learn all Don Helms licks back when they were new, than ones trying to find some new ground. Then on top of that I guess there's a lot of us old geezers, that just wax nostalgic, and want to go back to our youth for a little while. I think it's all good.
Gene Warner
San Antonio, Texas

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 18 Mar 2010 5:50 pm

The hardest part about playing steel guitar is actually playing it. The easiest way to get a grasp on the physical aspect of playing it is to take off and study the stuff that's been done before. Once you've got technique, you can begin to apply any language to it you like. I don't think there are any limitations on where you can go with it, but I think the process of creating a fresh, new sound is the result a lot time devoted to learning the instrument, even if it means playing music far removed from where you want to take it. I think that can probably be said for any instrument.

The problem really is that steel players are not writing enough of their own music.

Mark Bracewell · Post by **Mark Bracewell** » 18 Mar 2010 7:53 pm

Mike Neer wrote:The problem really is that steel players are not writing enough of their own music.

The other side is when they do write, who knows it's a steel?
I listened to Gilmour for decades without knowing he was playing lap steel at all. I prolly owe my salvation to YouTube.

I'm making steels in a fairly public place, people often come by and say ...

Code: Select all

Hey, are you making a guitar?
Yep. 
What kind of guitar is it? 
Lap Steel, Electric Hawaiian Guitar.
(sound of brain grinding to halt)
Uh, wat?

I'm used to this. When I was making a Daxophone it was about the same, so I put some recordings of a daxophone on my cell phone so I could play it for folks. It made them laugh anyhow. Now I try to find an artist they know about who uses steel and point them there.

If we only ever talk about Joaquin and JERRY to people who already know who they are, well, it's obvious what happens, we go the way of the Dodo. I like to play Steinar for people who don't even know where Norway is (it may not help them in this regard but they love it anyway).

P.S. you don't need tabs for Mercury Blues, just watch this - open E major tuning - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAbbgSKUZB4

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 18 Mar 2010 8:16 pm

If we don't know where we've been, how can we tell where we're going?

We've had many discussions about contemporary players recently, from the Last Town Chorus to Steve Cunningham to the Neighborhood Trio (one of my current favorites) to Slo-Mo, just to list some examples. I would agree that recently there has been more discussion of classic tunes and players than at other times.

I think most steel players are more mature than your regular guitar player, so you would necessarily see more discussions about the older styles among people who grew up with those styles.

I know that David Lindley's sound and style have been discussed, but he's been pretty open about how he gets his sound (involving a Supro or Rickenbacker lap steel and a Dumble amp) in many interviews over the years.

I'm not familiar with Xavier Rudd. What songs of his can you recommend that feature lap steel? I know that Australia has a few lap steel players such as John Butler.

I would say that contemporary dobro players such as Rob Ickes, Jerry Douglas, Greg Booth, etc. are where I see most of the energy being directed. Electric lap steel doesn't have the high visibility that acoustic lap steel does currently.

Roman Sonnleitner · Post by **Roman Sonnleitner** » 19 Mar 2010 2:32 am

I think Steinar put it very well!

Don't confuse the SGF with the "world out there" of music - sure, here a lot of discussions revolve around those classic steel guitar players from way back - and precisely becuase here's one of the few places where they are discussed, people interested in that kind of music will flock here, kind of a "feedback loop"...

But there's a whole world of lap steel players and styles out there that rarely ever gets discussed here, and the lap steel has made a grand comeback in certain musical styles like alt.country or blues rock.

Me, I got interested in that instrument because of "modern" players like Bill Elm from the Friends Of Dean Martinze, Greg Leisz, or Ben Harper - sure, it's never bad to know a bit of history, and who was influential in the evolution of the instrument; but that doesn't mean that you have to like everything from that history. My own interest in Hawaiian music is rather marginal...

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 19 Mar 2010 3:47 am

Mike Neer wrote: The problem really is that steel players are not writing enough of their own music.

Bingo!!

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 19 Mar 2010 3:49 am

"I'm not familiar with Xavier Rudd."

A quick search on youtube should bring up some great examples of him playing: he play weissenborn, Diggereeedoo (sp?) at the same time. And sings. It is very electric though.

Here he is doing the Bob Marley classic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51veCRLN ... re=related

Here he is on Jimmy Kimble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Szkj_T ... L&index=57

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 19 Mar 2010 8:29 am

A rooster is getting ready to retire from his gig at the Farm. He sent the word out to some young roosters to come up and audition for the gig. First young rooster comes up and scats the Bird solo on 'Night in Tunisia'. Nothing happens--the sun doesn't come up, no dogs begin barking. Next young rooster comes up and does Trane's solo on 'Giant Steps'. Nothing happens. Third rooster comes up and does Ornette's thing on 'The Sphinx'; still nothing happens.

Finally, the old Rooster says, "why you sad m*^&**%s, and clears his throat, coughs and cries out "COCK A DOODLE DO, COCK A DOODLE DO." The sun comes up, dogs start barking, the farmer wakes up and a new day begins. The old rooster looks at the younger ones and says, "I TOLD YOU SAD M*^%^&*, YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE STANDARDS FIRST !!"

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 19 Mar 2010 9:07 am

Hehe... don't know if this middle aged rooster agrees 100% but I see your point.

In the world of guitar,- would that mean a new player will have to study and learn the styles of Charlie Christian, Django Reinhardt and Chet Atkins to call himself a "proper" guitarist?

I listen to players of many styles and periods, both on guitar and lap steel, and while they inspire me I have no desire to "become" them. Actually, my biggest inspiration is singers and Ray Charles has always been my favorite "guitarist"....

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 19 Mar 2010 9:20 am

Steinar Gregertsen wrote: ...In the world of guitar,- would that mean a new player will have to study and learn the styles of Charlie Christian, Django Reinhardt and Chet Atkins to call himself a "proper" guitarist? ...

Nah, it doesn't mean anything, it's just a joke.

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » 19 Mar 2010 9:56 am

Hey, are you making a guitar?
Yep.
What kind of guitar is it?
Lap Steel, Electric Hawaiian Guitar.
(sound of brain grinding to halt)
Uh, wat?

No kidding! I'm so tired of explaining that no, those are not tiny banjos (wood Frypans) and having to explain lap style guitar plus the entire history of the Weissenborn and resophonic guitars whenever people see the Weissonator.

Chad Winn · Post by **Chad Winn** » 19 Mar 2010 2:07 pm

A forgotten contemporary lap slide player that has brought the steel into prominence (at least he did for me, anyway) was Kelly Joe Phelps - in his playing, I heard absolute originality...even if it did echo of the Willies (McTell & Johnson).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MEw9N9ox6E

Another is the great John Fahey. First, KJP opened my eyes. Then Fahey blew my mind. What John Fahey does on the acoustic steel is outside of most categories that are discussed here...and an incredible sign of originality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAZNPqci ... re=related

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 19 Mar 2010 3:07 pm

Yes Kelly Joe Phelps was an inspiration to me as well, although I had a hard time sitting through his instructional video.

Of course, if truth be told, it was hearing Bonnie Rait and Johnny Winter back in the early 70's when I was a kid that hooked me forever.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 19 Mar 2010 3:12 pm

I wouldn't call Fahey a contemporary - he died in 2001. His early work on lap steel was very influential.

I'd agree that Kelly Joe Phelps is a very good player and has a been a big influence on many modern day players (along with Ben Harper). He doesn't seem to play much lap steel currently, which is a shame.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 19 Mar 2010 3:34 pm

Here's a couple videos with a young Norwegian dobro (and sometimes lap steel) player named Freddie Holm. He's obviously studied all the 'traditional' dobro stuff and has his banjo rolls down cold, and then he's taken it all in his own direction, often with a quirky sense of humor.

"Quasi Classical" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMfnj0MoJe8&NR=1 (very tounge in cheek, or in his own words: "Is this how Malmsteen would have sounded on a Dobro?"

)

"Jazz Tune" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZVW9Ibwr2E (that's him on guitar also)

Roman Sonnleitner · Post by **Roman Sonnleitner** » 19 Mar 2010 4:39 pm

Let's also not forget about our own Fred Kinbom, one of the modern innovators of this instrument!

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 19 Mar 2010 5:02 pm

I think Fred is a very good example of the kind of player I refered to in my first post,- someone who falls in love with the beauty of weissenborn and lap steel, and use it as a vehicle to create his own musical universe. Forumite Steve Cunningham is another.

Chad Winn · Post by **Chad Winn** » 19 Mar 2010 5:08 pm

Bill McCloskey wrote:Of course, if truth be told, it was hearing Bonnie Rait and Johnny Winter....that hooked me forever.

Bill, it was hearing these exact two that sold me on bottleneck....forever.

And that was in the late '90s........

Chad Winn · Post by **Chad Winn** » 19 Mar 2010 5:13 pm

Brad Bechtel wrote:I wouldn't call Fahey a contemporary - he died in 2001. His early work on lap steel was very influential.

I'd agree that Kelly Joe Phelps is....he doesn't seem to play much lap steel currently, which is a shame.

I'd argue that Fahey is more 'contemporary' than Joaquin Murphy or Jerry Byrd..

...and I'd agree that it is a shame that KJP doesn't play lap steel much, anymore. I'm seeing him next month with Corinne Bailey - I'm hoping that he pulls out the slide for an accompaniment or two...

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 19 Mar 2010 5:16 pm

In my case, I started years ago in the David Lindley and KJP vein, got a gig doing something else, then ultimately realized that I had a ton to learn in order to play the music I really want to play, which would be more along the lines of Rhythm & Blues Organ trio stuff. I still play a lot of Rock, because that is what my main gig calls for, even though there is a Country twist to it, but for the most part I've devoted myself to learning as much about playing the instrument as I can, specifically technique wise. Without that, I will never realize my own vision.

I am deeply indebted to Country (including Western Swing) and Hawaiian music, because that is where the steel guitar was born and raised and in my opinion where the best steel guitar music was ever made. I'm left scratching my head sometimes when folks don't want to acknowledge it. If you love the steel guitar, you have to have an open mind, not only to where it's going, but to where it's come from.

BTW, Don Rooke and the Henrys--another great example of someone making unique music on steel and resonator instruments. Fascinating compositions, wonderful playing.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 19 Mar 2010 5:18 pm

I'd argue that Fahey is more 'contemporary' than Joaquin Phoenix or Jerry Byrd.

...I think you mean Joaquin Murphy? Joaquin Phoenix is an actor.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 19 Mar 2010 5:26 pm

Doug Beaumier wrote:I think you mean Joaquin Murphy? Joaquin Phoenix is an actor.

Hahaha...who the heck even knows what Joaquin Phoenix is anymore. Isn't he a rapper now? I think I saw him stage with James Williamson and the Stooges and the RRHOF.

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Does our focus on the past limit the appeal of Lap Steel

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