Keeping a Brand Alive

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 31 Jan 2010 11:30 am

I am shocked that the passing of John Fabian appears to be the end of Carter and Magnum instruments. It's understood that small boutique brands disappear with the owner's death, but the Carter business model seemed capable of surviving. I'm surprised John hadn't been able to arrange for the company to survive him.

I had hoped to get a new Magnum when I was ready and could afford a D-10, because they seemed to be so easy to work on (and because Sarah Jory sounded magnificent on hers.) Of course, the volume of instruments already produced means there will be used Carter and Magnum around.

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 31 Jan 2010 11:48 am

Maybe now Bud Carter will come out of retirement and start back to building guitars for the company.

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 31 Jan 2010 12:13 pm

Perhaps, but that still leaves it dependent on the presence of one person.

Ernest Cawby · Post by **Ernest Cawby** » 31 Jan 2010 12:16 pm

I know it takes mioney to survive but John seemed to me to be more, in the helping other than making lots of money. Look at all the info he provided on the net to help others find needed help fixing and tunning guitars.

ernie

Justin Griffith · Post by **Justin Griffith** » 31 Jan 2010 12:21 pm

I too am saddened by this. If I thought I could swing it I would buy the company in a minute (provided it is for sale) and continue building their guitars. At 35 I should live long enough to build a good many more.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 31 Jan 2010 1:03 pm

I expect the brand to continue, I certainly hope so.
Jerry

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 31 Jan 2010 1:22 pm

I think you should all just give Ann and her family some space guys ...I'm sure in time that John's legacy will live on, but now isn't the time to be putting any pressure on them!

Johnny Harris · Post by **Johnny Harris** » 31 Jan 2010 2:54 pm

Paddy, I was just thinking the same thing. This is a shock to everyone, and given a little time, I am sure the future will come to light. God bless Ann and family.

Richard Damron · Post by **Richard Damron** » 31 Jan 2010 4:21 pm

Ditto to Paddy and Johnney.

God bless, Ann.

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 31 Jan 2010 4:46 pm

Paddy, I am not trying to put pressure on Ann. That's why I started a separate thread. I did not want to hijack the memorial.

If I knew how, I would retitle the thread to be general rather than a reference to Carter/Magnum.

My intent is discussion of establishing sustainable brands of PSG, that can survive a death. That, I think, will require a team, comprised of craftsmen and businessmen. Enough of each to survive a tragedy.

Jason Hull · Post by **Jason Hull** » 1 Feb 2010 2:18 am

I think it's a good thing that these instruments are so closely attached to their makers. I'd rather own something custom than a "factory" guitar any day. Think of an off-the-shelf Strat versus a custom electric. No comparison. Only someone who cares that much can make a really fine instrument. With all due respect to Mr. Fabian, someone else will come along to fill that niche. It is a niche, which means a team of businessmen and craftsmen will never fill it. Again, that's a good thing.

Chuck Snider · Post by **Chuck Snider** » 1 Feb 2010 7:14 am

I think if you read the announcement from Ann in the "Pedal Steel" section you will see that they have apparently sold the business, and will transition to the new owner, with the new owner starting up on around April 30th. The inplication is that it will be someone that has been trained to service and support the Carter guitars.

I would agree with the others, this particular topic should wait some time, and allow the Fabian family reasonable time to grieve before they deal with this crowd. I'm sure Ann is aware of the potential anxiety within this community, and will "talk" to us when the time is right for her. We need to respect Ann's request and leave the family alone for now.

-Chuck

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 1 Feb 2010 8:18 am

I'm starting to take offense at the charge that this thread is aimed at pressuring Ann Fabian, or too soon. I changed the title of the thread to reflect that. I intend it to be a discussion of no particular brand, but of the entire industry.

We all know that price of the instrument is a deterrent to growth of the PSG community. John Fabian was able to produce the Carter Starter and the Magnum in quantities to be sold through music retail outlets. He didn't do it singlehandedly. He built a team.

Even if an individual has both the craftsmanship and the business sense to do it all, there just aren't enough hours in the day. If the craftsman also has to handle all the customer service, website, etc., either production or quality will be affected negatively.

There is a need for boutique builders and their innovations, and also a need for mass produced instruments. Personally, I'd like to see PSGs in kit form, like assembling a Warmoth guitar. Mass produced hardware and precut wood; sand and paint the wood, then put it together yourself. A good project for a Minnesota winter.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 1 Feb 2010 8:32 am

Sierra is a brand that has survived several owners (at least 4 owners that I know of, and at least 1 major relocation of the entire manufacturing facility) and is still in Biz.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 1 Feb 2010 10:33 am

Chuck Snider wrote:I think if you read the announcement from Ann in the "Pedal Steel" section you will see that they have apparently sold the business, and will transition to the new owner, with the new owner starting up on around April 30th. The inplication is that it will be someone that has been trained to service and support the Carter guitars.

Here is part of the section you are referring to:

A very special and factory-trained dealer has agreed to take over Warranty Service, Sales of Parts, and sales of remaining Carter pedal steel guitars' stock.

I don't see anything about selling the business, only that someone will perform warranty service, and sell off the remaining parts and guitars. I also interpret that to mean that there will not be any more guitars built.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope that I am, but that's the way I read it.

Gianni Gori · Post by **Gianni Gori** » 1 Feb 2010 11:21 am

Rich Peterson wrote:... Personally, I'd like to see PSGs in kit form ...

That'd be great, I would get one!

Chuck Snider · Post by **Chuck Snider** » 1 Feb 2010 1:00 pm

Jim Smith wrote:I don't see anything about selling the business, only that someone will perform warranty service, and sell off the remaining parts and guitars. I also interpret that to mean that there will not be any more guitars built.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope that I am, but that's the way I read it.

Jim you could be correct, and I may have misread Ann's comment of "All the inventory has been sold....". I read that as the business had been sold, which is certainly different than merely the inventory, so maybe I was reading too much into it. I guess we'll know more as we get closer to the end of April.

-Chuck

tom anderson · Post by **tom anderson** » 1 Feb 2010 2:11 pm

I was mostly shocked because my image of Carter was that of more than just a boutique builder of guitars, but as a company that was working to get the steel guitar back into dealers hands and thus opening up new customers to the instrument. I remember seeing Carter starters at the Musicians Friend outlet here in Kansas City, and that was the first new steel guitar I had seen in a normal music store (not one that specializes in steels) in decades! In fact, the guitarist in my band bought a Carter starter from there, and he did not play steel. I also thought the Carter booth at Scotty's convention was great marketing. But with John's passing it seems like his business is like most small businesses in the United States where the owner is the company and unless his or her children take over, there is little likelyhood of the company continuing (much like my own catering business which I have run for 20 plus years). I too value the boutique builders we have and the instruments they make, but valued John for the image, marketing and brand he created.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 1 Feb 2010 2:15 pm

You will never see a pedal steel thats worth buying in a kit form.

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 1 Feb 2010 2:24 pm

Kevin Hatton wrote:You will never see a pedal steel thats worth buying in a kit form.

What do you base that opinion on?

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 1 Feb 2010 9:02 pm

I could be incorrect, but I believe that the Emmons Co. at one time sold guitar kits.

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 1 Feb 2010 9:43 pm

deleted

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 1 Feb 2010 9:57 pm

good by

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 1 Feb 2010 10:10 pm

deleted

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 1 Feb 2010 10:18 pm

Rich, I base my opinion on being a builder, and also having been a staff writer for Steel Guitar World Magazine for 8 years. No one is going to invest 15- 20,ooo in set up costs so that someone else can take away their profit. Emmons did offer kits for a short period of time, but it didn't last.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Keeping a Brand Alive

Keeping a Brand Alive

hi

let the brand die