Clear Coat Aluminum?

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 29 Nov 2009 7:11 pm

I'm looking at all these beautiful old Sho-Bud and Emmons
guitars that have been refinished, refurbished, restored. All this newly polished gleaming metal. All that buffing is time consuming and costly. I'm sure someone has had the idea to clear coat the alum to protect it so that it doesn't oxidize and dull, but has anyone ever actually done it? on new machined or newly rebuffed parts? Any builder ever done it on a new guitar? Will it yellow, discolor, cloud over time? What are the problems with doing this, if any?

This has crossed my mind several times over the years. I'm visualizing highly polished mirror finished aluminum parts with a polyurethane or lacquer clear coat. They do it all the time with automotive finishes. A base color coat with a clear top coat. Also on some custom aluminum wheels.

For routine cleaning, some parts are difficult to polish well on the guitar and leave scratches and swirl marks. Perhaps a protective coat would eliminate that problem.

I know you would still have to polish and wax over the clear finish, but that's easier and quicker than an alum polish job.

I guess pedals particularly might be excluded due to the finish wearing off over time? I don't know.

Any thoughts about this?

Allan Munro · Post by **Allan Munro** » 29 Nov 2009 7:46 pm

Interesting question. I am no expert but I have been told more than once that anything that you wish to apply to aluminum either has to be an etching material or has to be applied to an anodized surface. I think either of those would defeat the object.

I would love to told that there are suitable clear coats available for these parts. Perhaps my information is way out of date? I wonder if any of the newer range of epoxy finishes would do for this?

Regards, Allan.....

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 29 Nov 2009 9:05 pm

Thanks Allan. Point taken. I've heard that also. I know you can polish aluminum until it's gone and still be getting residue. It's a nasty metal.

I know that some custom aluminum wheels have a clear coating on them although I don't know what it is....I found out the hard way. I also know it looks really bad if it starts peeling off.

No metallurgist or coatings expert here, but I have some clear glaze here. I think I'll buff up a couple pieces of alum and spray them. Experiment with it some.

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 30 Nov 2009 6:22 am

I once painted an aluminum boat, so before doing so I talked to a good friend who ran an auto body shop.

He informed me that the aluminum needed to be etched with something I can't remember what, then he advised me to use zinc chormate primer before painting in order for the paint to stick and not peel.

This was over 30 yrs. ago. I took his advice and had good luck with my project. But to do this with clear coat would defeat ones purpose, I would think.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 30 Nov 2009 8:41 am

I would think aluminum could be clear coated, after all, brass is clear coated to keep it from tarnishing.

Paul E Vendemmia · Post by **Paul E Vendemmia** » 30 Nov 2009 10:14 am

A lot Of car guys like to spray a clear lacquer over polish aluminum.
I have done some chrome plating over aluminum
and it's great but you need a real good plater find one that does "Harley parts" those guy are the best.

Larry Scott · Post by **Larry Scott** » 30 Nov 2009 1:25 pm

Paul E Vendemmia wrote:A lot Of car guys like to spray a clear lacquer over polish aluminum.
I have done some chrome plating over aluminum
and it's great but you need a real good plater find one
that does "Harley parts" those guy are the best.

The same clear you spray on your head

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 1 Dec 2009 4:19 pm

Quickly, I think you'd have to etch it a lot.

A good middle solution is Alcoa's Step Process. The first is muratic acid and you can skip it. The Second stage is the paste that agressively cuts tarnish. Like Mothers' but Mothers' SUCKS. Shines like a mirror.

The "Sealant" stage is a VERY light acid spray. It's almost not detectable by taste. It takes a VERY small amount of mirror finish off, but it seals it for a LONG time.

The way they chrome aluminum harley parts is to glue a copper/plastic skin on it and plate the copper. First time a rock, bar, or anything else breaches the copper clad layer it boils up from cathodic reaction. (Physics: Not just a good idea, it's the Law.) That's why it's so weak for harley apps. On mine I just used the alcoa process and hit it again every 6 months of riding or so.

Alcoa Paste is available at DSU Peterbuilt dealerships. Maybe local truck parts places.

JMHO

EJL

Lee Bartram · Post by **Lee Bartram** » 1 Dec 2009 4:23 pm

hey Jerry just stick with those Mullen guitars never have to polish end plates and you can use them as a mirror to shave!!!!!

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 1 Dec 2009 5:19 pm

Yeah Lee, how well I remember. Unfortunately, I'm all out of Mullen at the moment

Maybe you got one in your stable you can spare. Care to help a guy out?

:lol::lol:

Anyhoo, I'm working on a small piece for experimentation. Buffing it out and gonna spray with some clear glaze. We'll see.

Russ Little · Post by **Russ Little** » 1 Dec 2009 8:05 pm

Jerry
Ive never done it to a Steel,
but we use to polich air planes
with neverdull then coat it with
glass wax. worked good on them

Dennis Wallis · Post by **Dennis Wallis** » 1 Dec 2009 10:51 pm

GFI guitars have clearcoat on them BUT they are brushed aluminum NOT polished .

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 2 Dec 2009 11:14 am

Thanks for all the responses. I got a few ideas now.

Russ, That sounds like a plan, if you can even find glass wax anymore. We used to have it at the auto shop. Pink liquid in a can, but I haven't seen any of it in years. I think Gold Seal made it too.

I was in the AF, but airplanes were all wood and canvass back then.

Sidney Malone · Post by **Sidney Malone** » 2 Dec 2009 4:44 pm

The modern day aluminum wheels have clear powdercoating on them. It should be no problem to do this to the endplates and I wouldn't think it would cost much since they are relativly small.

Powdercoating is probably the most durable coating you can put on them but would probably still be prone to getting scuffed eventually.....not sure if you can buff powdercoating to bring the shine back but may be worth a try.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 4 Dec 2009 11:06 am

I clear coat aluminim all the time. I have some etching that I get at an Auto Pain Store. I clean it with that then clean it off with water and paper towels. I then spray just a clear lacquer on it. I used to get a clear metal lacquer from Sherwin Williams, but for my purposes, the normal lacquer works just fine. It does dull the finish a little, though, even if I spray it with gloss lacquer. It has a sort of looks like something has been sprayed on it look, never as good as it does not coated. I have always been told that if you chrome plate aluminum, it needs to be on something that will be just for looks, not on anything that will get some rough use. A brushed finish aluminum will give the lacquer something to get it's claws into, so it is better than polished for clear coating.

If I am painting aluminum, I clean it with the same etching, then spray a light gray of metal primer, which comes in a spray can. I get it at the same Auto Paint Store. Then I spray it with a colored lacquer.

I polish and clean my Emmons end plates with Simi-chrome polish available at motorcycle or a knife shop. After that, I just make sure that I don't touch the polished ends. They stay good perfectly if you don't touch them wiht your hands. I have seen some players put on soft cloth gloves to set up and tear down their guitar so they don't touch anything with their fingers.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 4 Dec 2009 11:20 am

Thanks George. Very informative. The slight dulling effect that the procedure has on the finish was one of my main concerns.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 4 Dec 2009 12:43 pm

"I have seen some players put on soft cloth gloves"

I do that! I keep a pair of soft cotton gloves in my guitar cases. They cost almost nothing. I don't even wash them. Just toss 'em if they get dirty.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 4 Dec 2009 12:46 pm

I usually carry a pair of rubber gloves with me, just in case I have to do surgery!

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 4 Dec 2009 1:15 pm

Well, I'm not so particular that I'd wear gloves to keep off fingerprints, but whatever works for one. I guess I was thinking more about prevention of the long term tarnishing, oxidizing and dulling I see so often on older guitars that don't get regular polishing for whatever reason.

Russ has me thinking more and more about the glass wax deal.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 4 Dec 2009 4:02 pm

Jerry,
I remember "glass wax" I put about 5 coats on my Manta, and it stayed shiny for years! If you find it, please let us know. Great stuff!

Rick Kreuziger · Post by **Rick Kreuziger** » 4 Dec 2009 7:10 pm

This is the best product I know of: http://www.zoops.com/zoopseal.asp

Being in the automotive restoration business, I've seen many attempts with clear paint products over aluminum that appear to work initially, but will fail in time.
Another problem with them is that as they fail they form an air pocket where corrosion gets a start on the aluminum and makes more work stripping the finish and getting back a smooth shine.
Clear powdercoating is often used by wheel companies and holds up well, however, it does compromise the appearance significantly.

Another option is just keeping a good coat of wax on the parts. The typical environment a steel guitar sees is really pretty mild.

Rick

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 5 Dec 2009 7:21 am

I just remembered something. I saw some metal cups that a guy that did metal spinning on his lathe had made. They were aluminum with a beautiful polished finish. He said the cups were finished with a baked on epoxy finish for durability and to prevent tarnishing. I don't know if he just slapped on some regular epoxy glue then put it in an over or not. He worked in his home workshop, so I don't know if he did the coating at his shop or found an outside source to do the coating. It might work if you could get the epoxy put on smoothly. Maybe the heat of the oven would smooth it out. It would be a crap shoot as to what temperature to set the oven and how long to leave it in. For somebody that has the time and wants to experiment, it would be interesting to see the outcome. Don't blame me though if the epoxy catches on fire.

Anyway, maybe a google search might turn up something. I like the idea and it might just be the best solution.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 5 Dec 2009 7:53 am

Jerry,
I would suggest getting ahold of Bill Rudolph w/Williams Guitars. He uses a special type of finish on his guitars that involves a heat oven.
His finish is so impervious to the elements that finger nail polish remover will not even affect it.
He is a very nice guy to talk to and I'm sure he could give you some good advice about coating aluminum.

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