Hi,
I know this is not a steel related question...but since alot of steel player are also guitar player i thought i might be able to have some informations concerning B-bender design and setup,
I'm thinking of building a B-bender and was wondering if anyone has informations and pictures ,mesurements or anything that would be usefull to use as i have never seen one close, i have a pretty close idea of how it works but some more info would be appreciated.
Thanks.........Pat.
b0b...if this doesn't belong here!...just move it anywhere.
I have 2 double benders . Bill Warford from Springfield Mo. Made them . One I bought off of E bay and the other I had him install in my tele. I would be glad to help in any way I can.
Pat: I've built a couple of different types of benders. Come over to my MySpace page,look in my photos for the pics & check out "Tha Bends" on my player. Hope this helps. >>>dg
Pat
A good way to try a bender out without permanently changing your guitar is to get a hip shot b bender. You can temporarily install it under the rear strap button. You can get several pulls if you want I have been using one for several years now and when you get accustomed to them, you may not want any other type. I had a Nashville Telecaster with a Parsons Green bender installed at the factory and had lots of string breaking problems plus the tone sucked due to it being made from a cheap lightweight wood. I built a Tele with a Hard Northern Ash Body, Used the Pickups I Had on the Nashville Tele(Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounders) and Its A world of Difference, I also used a Peavey T-60 Neck
Pat, I agree with John on the HipShot Bender, I have one on a Strat and they work very well. My main guitar has a Parsons/White bender but I still prefer the HipShot.... For more info on benders just go to the Telecaster Discussion Page at www.tdpri.com and scroll down to the B-bender section or you can go the the Clarence White site at www.clarencewhiteforum.com and you'll probably find what you're looking for..........JH in Va.
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!
About 10 years ago I had Larry Miletich install my double bender. Other than tuning the stop occasionally I've never had to do any sort of maintainence. Never had a broken string from either bender as well.
Tim Wallis builds the Timara Stringbender kits. You can replace your existing bridge with these. Also D drop and other strings as well. Simple, easy to install, no mods.
The commercials are a bit wacky, but so is Tim
Tons of material to mine here. B-Bender Forum http://www.tdpri.com/forum/b-bender-forum/
Edited to add; I posted the wrong forum. Jacks is correct. Several people there have made their own benders, and, by doing a search, you will find out everything you need to know.
I prefer the Hipshot. Been using them since the 80s.
Last edited by John Billings on 7 Oct 2009 11:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
I second Jerry's mention of the Clarence White Forum - that's the place for B-Bender recommendations, as the majority of active members have owned more than one type and even more have played many of the ones on the market.
I know several players who have made their own - and were really sorry. They are NOT as simple as they look, and slight variations in angles between rods and springs (on a Parsons-White), neck angle (on all of them), bridge alignment and string pressure, stop design and components, adjustability (yet no drift) make them far more complicated than one would think.
Sure, you can toss on a Hipshot, and many players use them very well - but most of the more serious bender players use a Parsons-type or one of the offshoots, or the Glaser type or one of *it's* offshoots. There's better control and a more positive feel with the shoulder strap types IMO (and I played a Hipshot for years - and would never go back).
The king of benders is the Evans Pullstring, but Dave is "on hiatus" at the moment after relocating. If he goes back into production I'd highly recommend his unit - fully adjustable spring tension (otherwise an option only on a few models), fully adjustable throw length (I'm not aware of any others that can do that) and a very linear, smooth pull.
Personally, I'd also steer clear of the Fender Benders (aka Parsons Green or Hipshot-made Parsons Green). I've played benders made by at least 12-15 different makers, and the PG-type I've found to be inordinately heavy, plus every one I have played seemed to have a "hitch" in the middle of the pull. In that Gene Parsons designed it, it goes to show how critical certain elements are in B-benders, and unless you have another one sitting next to you to dismantle and copy, you WILL run into problems if you try to make your own. And that can be a very expensive mistake.
Log on to the CWF and ask around. You'll get mixed opinions, but there are good guys there who are competitors but in a friendly way. You can get a quality unit installed for under $500 so it seems silly to try to make your own unless you've played one for years and understand the design.
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional
A couple other notes - if you want a bender for occasional use (either the guitar being used seldom or the bender ON a primary guitar being activated seldom) I'd maybe go with a Hipshot, but more likely the Higgins Peg Bender, which has a short throw but and action much like other shoulder strap models.
If I was going to use one full-time and base my playing style around it (which is what I do) I'd invest in a Parsons-White (again, the Clarence White Forum is your best bet - installers hang there) or if I was into fast Nashville playing a Glaser, Shelton or similar (which to me feels like an on-off switch; the PW-types are better for slow, drifting, legato bends as well as quick ones; the Glaser-types always feel insecure to me as well, like they are falling forward). The Pullstring covers both short-throw territory and long-throw - so if they become available again 'd look no further than that.
I'm basing all this on 35 years of B-bender playing with several different types and benders being my primary 6-strings; also on my tech background where I have worked on self-made benders done by very qualified machinists - every single one has had multiple problems.
On this forum you're getting recommendation from players for whom bender is a sideline (there may be one or two exceptions, but other than me I'm not aware of any). A bender-based forum would be a FAR better place to ask about them, as on the Clarence forum 99% of the members play benders as #1 instruments.
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional
About ten years ago, I built a Tele clone and installed a Parsons-White bender in it. Their representative strongly advised against doing it myself, but after showing them that I had managed to build a few guitars from scratch before, they finally agreed to sell me a unit.
I must agree with Jim S – it's really fiddly to get things working the way they should, not much room for error. So designing a bender of your own (even a "hommage" to a known design) would undoubtedly be a troublesome and expensive journey. Also, the Parsons-White type adds quite a bit of weight and takes out a big chunk of resonant wood, so expect a significant change in tone.
Thanks to following the 20+ pages of detailed instructions without deviations, mine turned out fine in the end. But I never got used to pushing the neck to bend, so I decided to sell it. If I were to try a bender today, I'd go for the non-invasive Tremor-Bender.
Thank you very much guy's for all the informations,
as i said...i've never seen one close so it's hard to know if it's a big job or something i could do, i can build a steel guitar with no problem and i'm pretty good with my hands when it come to make something, it is definetly something that i will look into further in the future for project.
years ago a guy came through town needing money and sold me a custom (non-fender) tele..maple top, binding etc., with a good solid parsons white bender in it for $400. actually a great guitar..a little heavy but i've felt worse. i don't play alot of guitar these days but i think i'd be foolish to get rid of it.
jim...do you have any idea of what gene (or a comparable tech) would charge to install this bender in another tele?
Jim is certainly very knowledgeable about the various bendeers and I'd second his remarks about a Hipshot being no more than an acceptable alternative. For serious exponents, the shoulder-strap types offer greater feel and control.
I've played bender Telecasters since I had my first in about 1974, and it's integral to my playing. For the last ten years I've opted for Joe Glaser's excellent bender. It differs from the norm inasmuch as very little routing of the guitar is required. The strap attaches to a lever mounted on the neck-plate, and the 'pull' is adjustable for tension and, of course, tuning.
I'd argue with Jim on the merits of Joe's bender - I like it best of all although, admittedly, I've yet to try the Evans.
I'm very excited because my favourite 'new' Telecaster (a Custom Shop Fender Thin-Skin based on the 1962 Teles) will be shipped to me tomorrow (Thursday) from Joe Glaser's Nashville shop; he was kind enough to short-circuit his normal six-month waiting list, and he's turned my guitar around in just over two weeks!
Joe's bender can be heard in the hands of Ricky Skaggs, Brent Mason and Diamond Rio's resident genius, Jimmy Olander.
I'll post a picture of my latest bender-Tele once I have it here....
Last edited by Roger Rettig on 7 Oct 2009 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10
(8+9: 'Day' pedals) Williams SD-12 (D13th: 8+6), Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and several old Martins.
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I've had a Bigsby Palm Pedal on my 67 Tele for 25 years. I even put one on one of my lap steels. Boomer Castleman in Nashville was the inventor of this one, licenced thru Bigsby. There are tailpiece models available that don't need screws, but most require a few holes, just like a bolt-on Bigsby Tremelo. (they didn't wan't to re-tool so they're based on the same frame)
The Hipshot is basically a knock off of a Palm Pedal, same idea but refined so you don't have to alter your guitar.
You can find Palm Pedals around on ebay quite cheep.
And a couple of others, first my Strat with a HipShot and then my Ibanez LP Jr. with a "Slingshot" bender built by Paul McEwen in Conneticut. Paul's bender is very reasonably priced and operates as good as any P/W bender out there. The unit goes on the back of the guitar. He makes them either permanently installed (like mine) or you can have one that attaches by the heel plate and strap peg........JH in Va.
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!
possibly before original stringbenders came out,(not exactly sure about that) jimmy baughman was making his own benders that worked somewhat like palm pedals...a little cleaner looking and jimmy (legendary player from the sacramento-auburn area) would amaze you with his ability to play great fat steel chord comping and melody and lightening fast licks on his red 335 (?) totally intimidating a beginning steel player like me at the time.
over time, jimmy settled down into a very kind gracious talented player.
I would tend to agree with the guys that are advocating internal benders. I have a hipshot double bender. I used it before I bought my B&W bender.The problem I have with palm levers is you have to push them out of the way if you want to palm mute. For some this may not be a problem but for me it was very annoying. I finally broke down and bought a guitar with a bender in it. I am so glad I did.
You might want to check out Forrest Lee Jr. on you tube. He is a monster picker and has his own line of benders he installs in Tele knock offs. I have seen his guitars on Ebay. If you are still interested in the Hipshot I will sell you mine. I sent it to Hipshot and they added the G palm lever . I have an Am std. and a MIM that have double benders in them.
So I don't use the Hipshot anymore.
Chris - jump to the Clarence White Forum and ask Brian Friend. he does nice installations and (I really don't want to put my foot in it here....) I *think* you might be looking at a couple hundred for an install if you have the parts.
Roger - I don't deny at all that the Glaser is a good unit. It's very well made. Personally, though, I find the strap button on it and the Shelton (very similar), which protrudes from the neckplate, to make the guitar feel awkward and always in a "falling forward" position. There are also no (that I'm aware of ) long-throw mods (very preferable if you do the Clarence White thing) - normal PW is 5/8", Glaser around a half-inch, and the long -throw (which matches Clarence's original) 1 1/8"! It would seems counter-intuitive, but I find the long, smooth strike far more accurate and controllable.
The examples Roger gave kind of proved my point as well - the Glaser players are guys who use the bender mainly for quick "on-off" bends in the middle of fast runs, while the west-coast PW and Evans players often like to hang notes out in midair, vary the speed, etc. It CNA be done on a Glaser, but it's much harder to use pinpoint control.
Eddie - was yours a Tele Custom with a Parsons-White added, or a "custom" Tele with a Parsons-Green ( or Parsons White)?
The stock ones from Fender weigh a ton - but normally, adding a bender adds negligable weight to the guitar, and while I've never heard tonal negatives I HAVE heard about tonal improvement through the lighter wood "platform".
Then again,my single most responsive Tele is a Nashville West made by Mike Nihen -at has a long throw PW bender, fake double-back (to look like Clarences) and the same relic'd stickers and paint. With Red Rhodes' famed Velvet Hammer pickups and harness it REALLY turns heads at jam sessions!
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional
>>>dg
