understanding passing chords

Chris Erbacher · Post by **Chris Erbacher** » 2 Jul 2009 1:45 am

i am wanting to understand passing chords...not sure how to phrase it but i want to understand how they work out theory wise in say a I IV V song...are they a tool for getting from one place on the fretboard to another? i know this is probably old hat for some of you guys so feel free to just tell me all you know about them...are they just chords in the key you are in that are between the major chords in the progression that are available to move thru on your way thru the changes as they relate to the melody? i realize that this is a key to understanding what the bassist is doing and how if i can tap into this it will help my playing out a lot, especially on backup type of situations, instead of just banging away at the chords. i come from a banjo players background and realize that piano players probably know this stuff and how to use it...if i had only listened to my parents and learned piano back when i was a kid...it is my intention for this thread to open up discussion of how the passing chords, melody and scale are intertwined as a means to understanding more of what is going on in a piece of music and how i can utilize this to better my playing and understanding of theory and melody...ok, let'er rip...i think that this forum is awesome and there is so much talent and brainpower music wise on here and i think it would be cool to have a thread where some of the more brainiac type of stuff is freely "taught" to the rest of us so that we can all benefit and raise our playing a notch or two from a collaborative standpoint...

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 2 Jul 2009 5:23 am

There are several different ways of looking at passing chords. Really, the most important aspect of it is the movement in the bass notes. After all, music is mostly about movement. The notes in the upper register would be important for melodic voice-leading.

In many cases you are simply playing inversions of the same chord with a different chord tone in the bass. For instance, to get from E (I) to A (IV), you might play play a first inversion E with the G# in the bass. The G# in the bass represents movement to the IV chord, A. You can also do this by getting a bit more harmonically sophisticated and substituting another chord with a G# in the bass, such as G#7--there are many possibilities that become available as you get a deeper grasp of harmony.

Another way of looking at it is to use the secondary dominant chords. Each diatonic chord has a secondary dominant--in other words, there's a V chord for every chord in a scale. Look at this:

In C, I chord C -- sec. dom. G7
ii chord Dm -- sec. dom. A7
iii Em --- sec. dom. B7
IV A --- sec. dom. E7, etc.

We use these secondary dominants and their inversions to create movement.

Take a look at "figured bass". Just google the term and read up on it.

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 2 Jul 2009 5:39 am

the short reply, as there are numerous books & methods on this available, and its not something easy to boil down in 2 paragraphs:

passing chords make harmonic movement where there is static harmony - like you say, if you have 2 measures of C - that is static harmony - its just sitting there for 2 measures - you would put some harmonic movement in those 2 measures to make it more interesting by using alternate/extention and/or passing chords. although they can get from one part of the fretboard to another, that is not their role - its to provide harmonic movement and lead the listener from one chord into another - there are LOTS of movements from a V - I chord for instance instead of just playing a plain V-I.

using the melody to guide the harmonic movement - you would build a triad from the melody note, usually placed on the top of the inversion. if the melody note is diatonic to the key you are in, you can often use diatonic harmony right out of the scale - diatonic harmony is used ALL the time, those iii - ii - I movements.

its all about tension and resolution, you want to build tension from one chord into another OR resolve tension into the chord coming next.

find a piano player in your area and sit down with them for a while.
i remember hearing Joe Pass, the great jazz guitarist say that if you know more about harmony than the piano player - you're in trouble (gig wise)

John Gould · Post by **John Gould** » 2 Jul 2009 5:39 am

Another passing chord or tone that is used quite a bit
are diminished chords. Listen to almost any Willie Nelson tune and you'll hear that type of passing tones.
If your playing the I IV V progression you put the Diminished chord between the IV and V. It's better sounding than just the #IV or bV which ever way you want to look at it.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 2 Jul 2009 8:42 am

There are two different approaches to passing chords. The simplest approach is based on the melody. The other approach is based on transition chords to add between two chords, and these transitions may or may not involve the melody.

If you look at a typical chart, there are fewer chords than melody notes. There may be only one or two chords charted in a measure or phrase that has several melody notes. A simple piano arrangement might have the left hand bass line or chords vamping at each charted chord change, while the right hand plays the melody notes, maybe as single notes, or possibly with sketchy harmony. But theoretically you could put a full harmony chord with each melody note. Those are passing chords. They might simply be inversions of the vamp chord with the melody note at the top of the inversion. Or they might be harmonized scale chords or other substitution chords that work on top of the vamp chord. In a simple three chord style, such as folk or country, they might work best as merely inversions of the vamp chord or one of the other two chords (I, IV or V) . In more complicated jazz and classical music, they would more likely be substitution chords. The original version of the song may not have specified such passing chords, so different players and arrangers may come up with different options for the passing chords. That can lead simply to varying personalized arrangements, but can also lead to fist fights.

Transition passing chords can occur where the melody does not change. For example at the end of a phrase the melody may have a long note. The chords can change under that note, or not. Transition passing chords can be added there moving to the next melody chord. Again those might be inversions of the melody/vamp chord, but are more often other chords taken from the harmonized scale, such as the diminished chords suggested above. They also could be the melody/vamp chord with additions, such as 7th, 6th, 9th, b5, etc. And again, if these are not specified in the original version of the song, they will create a personalized new arrangement, which other people may like, or may take exception to.

Ryan Knudson · Post by **Ryan Knudson** » 2 Jul 2009 10:06 am

but are more often other chords taken from the harmonized scale, such as the diminished chords suggested above.

Sorry for my ignorance, but would that mean that the diminished chord would be the chord for the seventh scale tone (F# dim in the key of G)?

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 2 Jul 2009 10:19 am

Diminished chords and seventh chords are often interchangeable, especially since a dominant 7th chord has a diminished triad in it. A Bb dim chord is essentially the same as an A7b9 without the root. The use of secondary dominants can be expanded to include diminished chords, as well.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 2 Jul 2009 10:44 am

Yes, a VIIdim is the harmonized scale chord for the 7th tone of the diatonic scale.

I ii iii IV V vi VIIdim I

Don Brown, Sr. · Post by **Don Brown, Sr.** » 2 Jul 2009 10:44 am

Possibly, what Chris Erbacher, was wondering more about, were the passing tones, leading into different changes, like so many of the newer folks ask about in just as many different ways of getting there.

Remembering that in passing tones, there are notes that when played against a cord directly, they wouldn't fly well at all. And yet, while using the same otherwise real distent notes can and does fly quite well, as a fast passing tonal expression when used in a series of passages. As in going from a 12 tonal run up while using the Dominate 7th along the way, resolving to a IV cord from the 1 cord.

I believe that's on many of the new/er players list of things they'd like to know, but they don't exactly know how to express it. And then too, maybe I'm all wet, in thinking that?

Only Chris can answer that one.

Chris Erbacher · Post by **Chris Erbacher** » 2 Jul 2009 11:15 am

in response to the post above, i posted last night after i was returning from a gig and passing chords came into my mind on the way home as possibly a means to better my playing in the backup role. i am doing a lot of duo gigs now and at the end of the night it seems like i don't remember the songs we did, just endless chords and solos...cool...but there are a few songs that we do with a loop pedal and a couple of the songs are literally just two chords...so you can see my boredom at just banging out two chords while waiting for the other guy to get thru with his solo while i do backup. i have been playing steel for a little over 6 years and before that 6 years on banjo. i am self taught and mostly from just trial and error and playing to cds and most anyone who cares to sit down and play a few songs, regarless of the instrument they play (this has taught me a lot). most of how i know how to play is by ear (people tell me that i have a great ear) and i have sat down with a guy who knows theory inside and out and he has critiqued things i naturally do, because my ear likes it and because my instinct tells me to do that...it was a cool discussion...i am finding that when i am doing backup with just one other person, in the venues we are playing in this configuration (restaurants), it is different than with the full band so i came here wanting more tools to use to deepen my playing and understanding of how to be better at what i am doing. i probably should have learned this way back in the day, and maybe in some ways i already do this naturally in using the harmonized scales, but i thought i would put a post up to understand more about it. like i said, if i had learned piano as a kid, then i would understand all this...thanks to everyone who already posted, it is helping...i think what i am finding out about music is that my ear and intuitive sense already does a lot of the stuff that you can understand theory wise, but in my case, because i wasn't schooled in it from the logic viewpoint (if that makes any sense), i am coming at it from how it sounds...they both are the same thing, but one is a deeper understanding...the why of how it works...and that is what i am wanting to know, so that when i am playing i will know why it works and how to use it more...

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 2 Jul 2009 1:29 pm

I'm not sure if you are wanting "passing tones",,,or "runs". To me runs are tones to get from one chord to another i.e. the I to IV,,or the V to I etc. Passing tones are used to pass from one inversion to another inversion of the same chord. i.e.,,when you must stay in the same chord,,or as you said,,a two chord song,,you need something to "color" it up a little. These "passing tones" are usually done on the same strings up and down the neck,,utilizing the sustain capabilities of the steel guitar. Let's take strings 5 and 8,,,3rd fret open,,,then 3rd fret AB down,,,then 5th fret AB down,,,then 6th fret A and F. This moves you from one inversion to another inversion of the same (G) chord. Staying on strings 8 and 5 move from 6th fret AF to 8th fret AB,,,then to 9th fret AB,,,resolve to 10th fret AB. You have remained in G chord all the time, but added some simple color to it,,,and used the sustaining ablities of the steel guitar. Don't pick each move,,use it as a steel guitar! You could substitute strings 4 and 5 for 8 and 5. When you start moving between the dom 7th inversions there are a lot more choices. A move that I use a lot is (song is in C chord) strings 4 and 5 with D lever on 1st fret,,let off D lever, push A pedal down, move to 3rd fret (just pick the 1st fret, sustain into the others),,or,take it back the same way,,,then if you're going on to the IV chord, you could move to 5th fret, no pedal,,,then 6th fret with A pedal, then either down to 4th fret AF or 8th fret AB,,,or the 6th fret with D lever for the IV chord.

Some players post their songs for us to hear,,and I hear every note picked,,,to me that defeats the intended sounds of the steel guitar,,,and those same people "talk" about the sustain of this guitar or that guitar???,,,if you don't use the sustain,,,why have it? JMHO,,,,whatever floats the boat,,,,

Gabriel Stutz · Post by **Gabriel Stutz** » 3 Jul 2009 1:54 pm

Not be picky, but the chord rooted on the 7th scale tone in a major scale is actually a minor 7b5 chord - or half diminished, not a diminished chord. A fully diminished chord has a doubly flatted 7th, the minor 7b5 is a regular minor 7 chord with a flatted 5th.

Gabriel

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 3 Jul 2009 11:55 pm

And once you learn them, don't overuse them.

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 4 Jul 2009 2:12 am

Not be picky, but the chord rooted on the 7th scale
tone in a major scale is actually a minor 7b5 chord -
or half diminished, not a diminished chord. A fully
diminished chord has a doubly flatted 7th, the minor
7b5 is a regular minor 7 chord with a flatted 5th.

The triad built on the seventh tone of a Major Scale is a
"Diminished" chord. (Notes 7, 2 & 4 of the Major Scale)

The four-note chord of minor thirds
(R, b3, b5 & bb7) is a "Diminished 7th" chord.

A chord made of notes R, b3 & b5 is a "Diminished" chord.

The naming is similar to that of a "Major" chord being
a three-note chord while a "Major 7th" is a four-note
chord: likewise a "Minor" chord being a three-note chord
while a 'Minor 7th" is a four-note chord.

Major, Minor, Diminished and Augmented are all triads
while Major 7th, Minor 7th, Diminished 7th, Augmented 7th,
Half-Diminished, Dominant 7th are four-note chords.

~Russ

Patrick Hattic · Post by **Patrick Hattic** » 7 Jul 2009 4:34 pm

Here is something that has helped me a lot. It,s ca lled "Band in the Pocket #5 Jazz Flavors". I found it on the counter at Guitar Center. These are the finest rhythm tracks I have ever heard. In the liner notes you will find directions to their website and you can print out a free music lesson "Extensions and substitutions". It will show you how it's done, one thing, you have to want it really bad because it will take a lot work to put the theory into practice,but all the tools you need are there.Heres the site www.fivefeathers.com .

Chris Erbacher · Post by **Chris Erbacher** » 8 Jul 2009 1:09 am

thanks pat and the rest of everyone who has chimed in...funny thing is this...i got a job doing the steel work for "the best little whorehouse in texas" musical, and i am learning a lot about this kind of stuff in the process of learning the music...and at the same time, being challenged by the steel and all the rapid lever movements/coordination needed to make everything smooth...i wish i had discovered the steel a long time ago...i might have majored in it at college...of course, i could still go back and do it, but man, our instrument is waaaay cool...

Shane Glover · Post by **Shane Glover** » 8 Jul 2009 7:56 pm

I must be confused ?? My musical education at college was long ago .So I am sure a lot of things have been been lost due to lack of use. So I looked at my chord chart on the wall. Now it is a guitar chord chart but ! I don't see any half diminished or doubly flat anything .Is this a term used exclusively by steel guitarist ? Or maybe a homespun term like "off chord" Just wondering ? Thanks for your help!!

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 8 Jul 2009 8:35 pm

Shane Glover wrote:I don't see any half diminished ... Is this a term used exclusively by steel guitarist ? Or maybe a homespun term like "off chord"

"Half-diminished" is one of those rare fortunate terms that means the same thing in pop, jazz, and serious music.

Shane Glover · Post by **Shane Glover** » 8 Jul 2009 10:13 pm

Sorry But I'm still confused about the half diminished chord . Maybe I'm just a dumb Okie but it seems to me if you can play a half diminished chord you should be able to play a half major chord or a half minor chord. But then again that could be where the doubly flat comes in !! Some of the stuff my kids listen to sounds half demented to me !!LOL !!But thats what my parents said to , so I guess I'm just gettin old !

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 8 Jul 2009 11:15 pm

. . . if you can play a half diminished chord you should
be able to play a half major chord or a half minor chord

The 'half-diminished' chord is a four-note chord.
It is a dominant-seventh chord with it's third
and fifth flatted, or in other words, the musical
distance between the third and the root, and the
fifth and the root has been lessened, or diminished.
When you flat the third or fifth, you 'diminish' its
distance from its root.

So, out of the four notes that make up this type of
dominant 7th chord, two of them, or, in other words,
half of them are flatted, or, in other words, are diminished.

Major Chords and Minor Chords are Triads,
in other words, they are 'three-note chords'.

So, how would you divide those three notes in half
to have a 'Half-Major Chord', or 'Half-Minor Chord?
~Russ

Mark MacKenzie · Post by **Mark MacKenzie** » 9 Jul 2009 6:20 am

Sorry Russ, I have to respectfuly disagree with your explanation of "half" diminished.

I believe it is called half diminished because the b7 tone is not diminished.

A full diminished chord has a 1, b3, b5, and a bb7. So the 3rd, 5th , and b7 of a dominant major chord are made a half-step flat or diminished.

The half diminished chord has a 1, b3, b5, and a b7. So its the same as a diminished chord except for the b7 instead of the bb7. So only partially diminished...half.

Half diminished are great chords. Most often used in a 2 - 5 progression to a minor chord. For example, F#half diminished, B7, E minor.

A half diminished chord is exactly the same as a minor7b5. You can call it either way.

Cool thing to get is that the F# half diminished (or F# minor7b5 same thing) is built on the F# with an A minor triad above it. F#, A, C, E. Thats why it sounds so cool leading to that B7 to E minor. Also helps me find it when soloing, that is, look for the A minor triad. Also its important not to play the A minor 7th on the F# half diminished because of the F# G clash.

Course all musical rules can be broken with good effect sometimes.

Anyway, thats how I look at it.........

Mark MacKenzie · Post by **Mark MacKenzie** » 9 Jul 2009 6:26 am

Sorry Russ,

After re-reading your post, I think your explanation makes just as much sense as mine if not more.

Mark

Shane Glover · Post by **Shane Glover** » 9 Jul 2009 6:42 am

Thanks for your explanation Russ . I understand what a triad is . I also understand the correlation between scale steps and major , minor , diminished and augmented chords. Thank you Mark for your explanation a minor 7 flat 5 chord makes sense to me . I just never heard it called a half diminished before . The half major half minor comment was meant to be a joke.

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 9 Jul 2009 7:05 am

The half major half minor comment was meant to be a joke.

I thought it might be, but wanted to give opportunity
for anyone to suggest using a couple of 'half-notes'
to complete the chords you suggested, haha.

Mark, the explanation I used is the only way I can imagine
why the word 'half' is used in the term 'half-diminished'.

I would, however, be curious to put it to a 'musical Einstein'
what, explicitly, does the word 'half' refer to, if not in the
sense that I suggested.
Thnx,
~Russ

Mark MacKenzie · Post by **Mark MacKenzie** » 9 Jul 2009 8:24 am

I would, however, be curious to put it to a 'musical Einstein'
what, explicitly, does the word 'half' refer to, if not in the
sense that I suggested.

Me, too. I guess its another example of where language has a hard time defining music. When you think about it, what does the word major or minor mean? Does it really define the sound? Course then there's slang like "swampy" or "up" or "cool."

Passing chords are cool (whatever that means) but can be overdone, too, like Richard said above.

One I like is using diminished arpeggios over dominant chords. Like an Eb diminished over D7. It gives that b9 sound which Django loved. It gives tension wanting to get back to that G. Cool in swing or jazz... not so cool in country ballads.

Music is a wonderful challenge... theory, mathematically, and emotionally. Its the feel of that b9 that seems most important to make music meaningful.

I did get the half major joke. It could be worse. We could have fractional diminished chords. 1/3 diminished. 1/2 major seventh. Makes my ear cringe just to think about it! (and my brain hurt)

One more thing. (Do I talk alot?) The symbol for a half-diminished is a small circle with a line through it at an angle. Symbol for diminished is just the circle. Some people write "F#o " which technically means diminished with no bb7. An "F#o7" is the full diminished chord.

Course you run into lots of different ways to write charts. Must be many threads on this...