NERO - "Title/Artist" in Properties - All For Naug

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 21 May 2009 12:25 pm

I just got done going through 26 Roy Orbison and Traveling Wilbury songs to make a composite CD in Nero (#7).

Even though my PREPARED MP3 files were listed as:

(example): Only The Lonely - Roy Orbison.mp3

....When I entered them in Nero to burn, Title and Artist were reversed; Roy Orbison was the TITLE and Only The Lonely was the ARTIST. How did this happen???

OK - so I changed it around in Nero's PROPERTIES settings; along with some other filter options.

When the CD was finally burned, I ran it through my PC/Sound (Winamp) and all files listed came out reading TRACK1, TRACK2, etc.

What's with this? What a pain to have to alter the name-designation you originally made for that mp3 file.

I've found that when you download a YouTube file and "save as" - you are better off, at this time, to put down the song's title, and then the artist - all in one fell swoop.

If you wait till later-on, and go into PROPERTIES to try and correct things, you will find that it's a friggin' confusing mess. They ask for way too much info. Then when you go in and alter things around like album, album artist, genre, rating etc., title - it never comes out as you thought it might. Now you gotta go back and fish again. This is what shoves simplicity out the door. The barn door.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 21 May 2009 4:31 pm

Download the free MP3tag program and you can quickly edit all the file's tags. You can bulk edit the album and artist name then individually edit the song track or ask MP3tag to pick them up in bulk from the filename.

http://www.mp3tag.de/en/

Greg

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 21 May 2009 5:02 pm

Thanks Greg,

This rant of mine has come up in the past, and I was advised about MP3Tag. I did download it back then, but I found it as confusing as going into PROPERTIES.

For me, MP3Tag isn't/wasn't that easy. It has to do with the lingo, I think? I don't know, years later, I may be able to grasp it better.........

But still...maybe my initial file "naming" failed, but Nero should'nt have.

Thanks, but I'm not gonna fool around anymore with this.

As a matter of fact, when I come to do another CD, I'm not gonna move one inch to name anything.

Nothing works. Period! Why bother? It takes long enough to get all (26) files puffed-up sound-wise to burn, and it takes almost as long to name and title everything.

$:\$

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 21 May 2009 7:08 pm

Even though my PREPARED MP3 files were listed as:
(example): Only The Lonely - Roy Orbison.mp3

....When I entered them in Nero to burn, Title and Artist were reversed; Roy Orbison was the TITLE and Only The Lonely was the ARTIST. How did this happen???

Chip: It happened because Nero looked at the tags. Simply renaming a file isn't going to change its tags. I could have a file named The Fireballs – Bulldog.mp3 and the tags might show the artist as Chopsticks and the title as Liberace.

You need to gain control over your tags and you can't do that simply by changing filenames. The tags on files as you find them are often incorrect, inconvenient, not what you want, misspelled, etc.

Nero is probably set up to read the part after the hyphen as the title and the part before the hyphen as the artist. That is the typical default.

Most people would want that file to display as Roy Orbison – Only The Lonely. There may be a setting in Nero to get it to read the part after the hyphen as the artist, I don’t know. If there is such a setting, you have to find it if you want to use Title – Artist rather than Artist – Title.

I use Mp3tag to change my tags around. Look at this picture of a folder opened up in Mp3tag. It shows 3 tags for each song: Filename, Artist, and Title. For my taste, the Filename tag is wrong. I want the file name to read Artist - Title, without any numbers. In this case, the first song has a filename tag of 11 - Thinkin' Of You.mp3. I want the filename tag to be Pee Wee Crayton - Thinkin' Of You.mp3.

Mp3tag can FORCE the filename tag to conform to the artist and title tags. It can also FORCE the artist and title tags to conform to a manually changed filename.

In this case, I will force the filename tag to conform to the artist and title tags through the CONVERT menu. Here is the result. I changed all the files in that folder with 2 clicks. Now, any player or burner will show "Pee Wee Crayton - Thinkin' Of You" rather than "11 - Thinkin' Of You". Notice that the artist and title tags were not changed.

Mp3tag requires only a little configuration and I could help you with that. Once it is set up, I only have to use the "Convert" menu.

The slickest thing for you may be to manually change filenames and then force the artist and title tags to conform. On the other hand, you may have hundreds of songs with correct artist and title tags, and you could easily force the filename to conform to those correct tags.

But you have to use an app like Mp3tag to quickly see what your tags are.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 May 2009 5:15 am

Thanks Mitch,

Your pics illustrate MP3Tag fairly well, and I appreciate your offer to help me out.

I guess I will download MP3Tag, again, and just start messing with it. Maybe I can understand it better this time around.

BTW, what was the reason for eliminating the track # in your final display? Was the track's # interferring with the tagging process? I'd like to keep the track number listed so someone can get quickly to that track. Or do all CD players automatically list a track #, even if it's not on the CD?

Once again, thanks Mitch, and Greg, too.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 22 May 2009 5:51 am

All CD players will list the physical track number. The basic setup for MP3tag is just to point it to a directory, then go about editing the tags for the songs in that directory.

Another simple edit procedure would be to make sure that the individual song file names are the same as the song names. Then tell MP3tag to make the song TITLE tags equal to their filenames. This all happens in a few click. Then you can select all the songs, right click them and make the album name and artist name the same for all of them by editing the ARTIST and ALBUM extended tag fields. Again, a few click does this for all the songs.

If you are doing this for use with an IPOD or Zune, then you may want to erase the uniquefileidentifier tag field as this can cuase the songs to be grouped improperly.

If possible though, run the CD through a player like Windows Media Player (WMP). WMP will usually fill in all the tag fields for you as it rips the CD. Then you can quickly view and edit them in MP3tag to clean up and erroneous extended tags.

Greg

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 22 May 2009 6:25 am

BTW, what was the reason for eliminating the track # in your final display? Was the track's # interferring with the tagging process? I'd like to keep the track number listed so someone can get quickly to that track. Or do all CD players automatically list a track #, even if it's not on the CD?

Chip:

No, the track's number did not interfere with anything.

Look at the first picture above, before anything was changed. You see a filename of “11 – Thinkin’ Of You.mp3”.

That’s a filename of a single mp3 as it appears in a folder in Windows Explorer. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want an mp3 named “11 – Thinkin’ About You”. I want to be able to look at a song title and tell who the singer is. Who is this guy 11?

So I changed it and the others to an Artist – Title format, as you can see in the second screen. The track’s original number on the CD from which these songs came was track 11. That info CAN and normally is retained as part of a track number tag, but who would want 11 as part of a filename???

When I changed the filename tags as shown in the second pic, I did NOT do away with the track number tag. It’s still there, but it is no longer part of the file name. I don’t care what track number any particular song was on the original CD, but that info is still maintained within the tags for the song. I just chose not to display the track column because I don’t care about it.

You can control what columns to show from the view menu, as shown below. Each of those little boxes on the left is a tag. Some you will care about and others you won't. Those not checked won't have a column, but the tag is still there.

Notice that only filename, artist, and title are checked—because those are the only 3 things I care about or might want to change. If you wanted to look at or possibly change the track tag, you would place a check by “track” during your initial setup, and from then on you would see a “track” column. But offhand, I don’t know why you would care about the track number since it only represents the track number on the original source CD. It is NOT the track number on any CD you might then burn.

When you burn mp3s to a CD, you are probably converting them to WAV so they will play back on any player. You can of course assemble tracks to be burned in any order you want. The third track on any burned music CD is going to carry an ID of some type showing that it is the third track, but that song may have been track 14 on the CD from which you originally ripped it. Once burned to the CD, it’s track 3, not track 14. If your playback unit supports direct track access, like through a remote control, I would assume the track could be played by punching in 3 or 03. I don’t playback that way—I use random or in track order: 1, 2, 3, etc.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 May 2009 7:33 am

Thanks again, fellas.

I just downloaded mp3tag now, but have yet to install it.

I guess I'm gonna have to re-think the numbering of a track, and probably go with ARTIST - TITLE.

Prior to all of this, I made 2 CDs of the same Orbison songs. MP3s off of YouTube. Surprisingly good fidelity.

One of the CDs was with ARTIST-TITLE setup; the other was TITLE-ARTIST setup. I have about 11/2 yr old $99 JVC CD player in my van. It's a good unit.
Anyway, in both cases, the display only showed ARTIST-
or TITLE-, depending on the CD. ie. The full tag, I guess, was not shown; just the 1st half. I was experimenting with this dilemma, trying to figure out exactly what the JVC would display. Never gave it much thought before, because half the time glare keeps you from reading anything and my eyesight is not good, anyway.

So I'm thinking, no matter what info you put in, some playback units may not display all of it anyway.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 22 May 2009 7:50 am

Chip:

Your last sentence is correct--that's one of the reasons I don't worry about genre, year, track number, etc. Even if the player displayed each and every bit of each and every tag, you can't be driving around with your eyes on your CD player anyway--not to mention the glare and small display making them largely useless anyway.

I think Artist - Title is the way to go, typically with a blank space before and after the hyphen.

Mp3tag also gives you some control over case--I use it to change lowercase to uppercase, so Roy Orbison - Only the Lonely.mp3 becomes Roy Orbison - Only The Lonely.mp3.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 May 2009 8:01 am

Yeah Mitch,

When I went into Properties/Details on every file, I deleted all that other BS info and only put in ARTIST and TITLE.
Talk about overload.

I also paid attention to upper/lower case, too.
Some say use lowercase on "thes", "ands", "ins" etc.
Prepostions, I guess. But I go ahead and capitalize every first letter of all words in the title.

Well, I'm gonna install MP3tag now, and give it a roar.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 22 May 2009 8:10 am

Chip:

I have never used the function, but I think mp3tag can automatically overwrite (delete)unwanted tag info in many cases.

Look in tools/options/tag panels/default values. I think if you choose "blank" for any of the chosen tags, it will overwrite whatever info is there and replace it with a blank entry.

I don't use that capability because I don't care if the genre tag for a Ray Price song says "blues" and the year tag shows "1492".

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 May 2009 8:36 am

OK Mitch,

I've got mp3tag up and running and I'm kinda stuck. I got another big folder of Golden Instrumentals, that are listed TITLE-ARTIST.

The 1st song I typed in on the screen's left side is "Yellow Bird" by Bob Lyons. All the other 30 or so songs are listed in the main screen. Of course in my folder I have all the songs listed as TITLE - ARTIST. But I haven't bothered numbering these (yet), and so, have yet to make a CD of them.

Then I clicked on CONVERT, and here's where the confusion set in: the menu listed tag-filename; filename-tag; filename-filename; and text file-tag.

I just don't know where to go from here. I read their online First Steps, but, more confusion.

Just what is a 'tag' anyway? Am I supposed to make up a name for a tag? The whole concept of 'tag' throws me a bit.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 22 May 2009 9:17 am

Chip:

Can you post a screenshot of that Golden Instrumentals folder opened up in mp3tag?

You shouldn't necessarily be "typing in" anything.

What you should do depends on what is shown onscreen when you open that folder in mp3tag.

Do you have your columns set up as mine were in my pix--a column for filename, artist, and title, all visible on screen?

For any given song, if the filename is perfect and the artist and title tags (as shown in the other two columns) were fouled up, you would convert filename to tag.

If the filename was fouled up, but the artist and title tags were perfect, you would convert tag to filename.

I wouldn't worry about any numbering. Why are you concerned with numbering anything?

Think of an mp3 file as a container holding 2 items: what you hear in your ear and other stuff. Tags are part of the other stuff. Think of tags as a way to show the artist and title on the readout of your player. I think some of the "other stuff" is used to communicate needed info to your playback unit, but you DON'T have to be concerned with that. That readout stuff on your player does NOT come from your filename. It comes from the tags.

Ask yourself: what tags do I personally care about? I care only about 2 (artist, title), and I use the application to either force a correct filename to change bad tags or force correct tags to change a bad filename. The only reason to do this is to display what you want to display in the player of your choice--whether that is in a car, an IPOD, or playing back on your PC. A Ray Price song can have an artist tag of Liberace and it will still play just fine.

One or the other--if both tags and filename are bad, you have to change one of them manually, whichever is easier. Normally, the easiest is to change the filename manually, BUT if your tags are correct, you don't have to change filenames manually. As Greg said, when you rip you can probably have the ripper app fill in your tags, but they may or may not be correct. If they were correct, you could then use those correct tags for artist and title to change a bad filename.

Set up your columns as I mentioned a post or two above this, open the Golden Instrumentals folder and tell me EXACTLY what the filename, artist, and title tags are for the first song. We'll go from there.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 May 2009 10:44 am

Mitch,

No, I guess now I'm gonna get away from numbering. You're right, it doesn't matter.

I don't know how to post a snapshot of the mp3tag screen.
I first went to 'change directory' in the taskbar, and clicked on Golden Instrumentals & subdirectories.

On the main screen are the songs listed under FILENAME.

The first song is written just like this:
A Summer Place - Percy Faith.mp3

Under PATH is listed C:\Users\MonsonMan\Desktop\Golden Instrmntls.

Under TAG, TITLE, ARTIST nothing is listed. Nothing is listed under the other headings either, until CODEC.

I could send a screen shot via your email.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 22 May 2009 10:56 am

Chip:

I don't know if you can send a screenshot through forum private mail. Go ahead and try it. If that won't work, send me a private email without the screenshot and I will send you my email address and you can send an screenshot to it.

Configure your columns through view/customize columns.

You don't need a column for path, codec, etc.

All you need is filename, artist, title.

If I understand you correctly you show nothing in the artist or title columns.

Just for kicks, highlight the first song by Percy Faith, go to Convert, and choose filename - tag and let me know what shows up in the artist and title columns. It will probably show "Percy Faith" under title and "A Summer Place" under artist--not what you want. You can always undo it from the edit menu.

That's because you have chosen to name your files backwards--title then artist, rather than artist then title.

Contact me privately and we will carry on.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 22 May 2009 12:29 pm

When I burn regular audio CD's (not MP3) with Nero, it will screw up the artist and title and I have to go in and edit each one of them to correct the title or to add the artist before I burn the CD's.

With wav files, Nero will get the Title right most of the time, except if it's only two words then it will screw it up. But it will also put the Title in the Artist section also. It's done that ever since I've used Nero (and I'm using V8 now).

But, with Nero's quirks, it's much more reliable than Roxio will ever be.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 May 2009 1:05 pm

Hi Mitch,

I had to step out for awhile. I did get your email address.

I clicked on CONVERT\filename-tag for Percy Faith. I had to continue and choose some options within the pop-up flag. I chose ARTIST.

"Percy" changed alright, but not the right way. I'll have to send 2 snapshots, so I can get in the entire screen.

Thanks Jack. I used to have Roxio one time, and you're absolutely right about Roxio vs Nero.

I'm really at a point that I just want to get the artist and title named on the file any way that's expedient. That's all.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 22 May 2009 1:53 pm

yuo can also burn MP3, wma and cda formatted CD's with Windows Media Player or using hte interface provided by Windows XP, no special burning software is needed.

In any case mp3tag is the best program I've found for working with tags.

If you ever go to a Zune or IPOD you will want at least the ALBUM tag correct to get the songs grouped by album unless you choose use the uniquefileid tag provided by most music services.

Greg

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 May 2009 2:07 pm

Thanks Greg,

What I found out about Nero, just recently, is the FILTER section, which enables you to tweak the songs, just before burning; Stereo Widening, Echo, EQ, Normalize Audio, No-Space-Between-Songs, etc.

I don't think WMP has those. I have burned CDs in the past with WMP, and it is very reliable, tho.

I was almost gonna go and get an iPod when they first came out, but a little birdy talked in my ear and said, "Just how many different kinds of things do you need to play music?"

I spaced it out, and never got one. Just another thing to have to deal with. I get along OK without it.

That's good to know about making sure of the ALBUM designation.