A challenge....let me hear it!!!

[Ron !]

How many of you can play a song on only 2 pedals(A&B) and 1 kneelever(E-lower or E-raise)?This can be in your band and/or an instrumental.
I was discussing this issue with a friend of mine.

We had the discussion that to many players rely on knee-levers and to many pedals instead of really learning how to play the old school.He told me that the good ole days that a steel guitar player could make it work are gone.

Now...how many of you can play a full song 3-4 chords on 2 pedals and 1 lever?
Let's just say...on a Sho-Bud maverick.

He also said that the country these days has to many gidgets when it comes to the steel guitar and I agree for more then the full 1000%.
He said that most players rely on to many levers and pedals........

How many of you can play a regular song on 2 pedals and 1 lever?...I am eager to know.

Ron

[Jeremy Threlfall]

I nominate Doug B - see his post in 'Tablature'. There is an audio clip that goes with it. Recorded on a student Emmons 3x1.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=156103

[Herb Steiner]

I can do it, no problem. I don't even need the knee lever. Of course, that's just "my slant" on things...

[Roger Crawford]

I played a jam that had five steelers on stage, including Jeff Newman. As Jeff was prone to do, he called the song we would do next, and announced that ALL knees had to be folded up. I made it through my part OK, but man, I had to think with a different slant as Herb says.

[Bill Ford]

"I'll Be All Smiles Tonight"...E9 open tuning,no pedals with/without Do-Bro simulator.

[Ernie Pollock]

I once sold my Universal 12 string to someone, & had no steel guitar to teach with, I borrowed a Maverick that had 3 pedals & no knee levers at all. Used it for several days, no problem at all playing without all the goodies. I think its good to see what you can do without them anyhow. There are lots of things you can play on E9th with no pedals at all, anyone remember Billy Bowman, I watched him on video & he hardy ever touched a pedal.

Ernie Pollock
http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

[Roger Rettig]

The first three years I spent studying psg were with 3+1 - I'd have been in trouble if I couldn't!

Another challenge? How much can you play without using a bar?

I've always felt that one should spend a significant amount of time with a minimal set-up - that way, you learn the tuning. I think that today's 'accepted minimum' of 3 and 4 is counter-productive.

[Bill Ford]

Ernie said,
"There are lots of things you can play on E9th with no pedals at all, anyone remember Billy Bowman, I watched him on video & he hardy ever touched a pedal."

I met Billy around 1950, if memory serves correctly, he was still playing his National with a really strange string configuration(plain,wound,plain) on one of the necks.Last time I saw/heard him play was in Knoxville TN in around 1990, two things I remember about that set was, he would lift his foot to engage a pedal, then not, he utalised pedals very sparingly. The other thing was Buddy Emmons standing with arms folded, watching every move, and occasionaly smileing, and shaking his head.You would not want to know a finer gentleman than Billy, always smileing and glad to see you.

Sorry Ron if I got a little off topic.

[John Macy]

I can easily play a 4 set gig on a Maverick...I can also go to McDonald's tonight and have a burger and fries, but I would prefer to go to a sushi bar and have several courses that challenge my palette...

[Dick Wood]

I can do it on Happy Birthday so there.

[Ben Jones]

I didnt realize not being able to use all my pedals and levers was something i could finally brag about! over here! ME! ME! I can do not only a song, but a whole set just using A and B...not sure I'd even need those. I never touch the C pedal, the right knees are used only at home on licks I can never fit into songs. I win! ....or um ...loose

It seems no matter how good you get, theres some guy out there with a one string guitar with no knees , no effects, an amp made out of toilet paper tubes, etc...who can smoke you.

[Joe Miraglia]

I recall a post saying a player wasn't very good if all he used was the A and B. on a pedal steel guitar. One comment was about R.R."he can't get past the A and B pedals". Some players say, " I use the C pedal all the time,can't play without it." You can go from a 1 to 5 chord without using a pedal on the same freet, of course you know that. Yes I can play many songs with just the A and B.but the way I make them sound,that's another question Joe

[Greg Tipsword]

I play A song that A friend of mine and I wrote. I dont use any knee levers, I use just the A+B pedals.

If you want the tab, PM me... I also have the Band-In-A-Box back up track if you want =)

Cheers

[Doug Beaumier]

Jeremy, thanks for mentioning my recording of "Invitation to the Blues" on an Emmons student model, 3 pedals, 1 knee lever. Here's a link --> Click

A LOT of stuff can be played on 10 strings, 3 x 1, especially if the player uses slants. In fact, a lot of stuff can be played with NO pedals.

[Ray Montee]

IMHO I honestly believe that far too many of you new comers to steel guitar.....

have unwittingly programmed your minds into believing the misconeption that the guitar with pedals installed, can't be played without frantic pedal movements in every measure.

It's simply NOT TRUE! You can play a wide variety of songs/melodies without any reliance on the use of pedals, that is, if you are a competent steel guitar player. RELIANCE on pedals in order to play is a real disservice to YOURSELF. Look at the guys that are doing it today, Look at Noel Boggs of yester-year.

Anytime someone starts a learning process in the middle of the program instead of starting at the beginning of page 1, is simply short-changing themselves. In the case of steel guitar, they're operating on a platform of mis- or incomplete information.

One wouldn't start in a supersonic jet fighter without first hours of ground school, start-up, taxi,
take-offs and landings, shut down, etc., etc.

It's sorta like building a steel guitar with no knowledge how to play it, or to get great tone and sustain, etc.

The beginning is always a great place to start. It's only difficult to play a song without pedals if you don't understand your instrument.

[b0b]

Here's my submission. The guitar has A and B pedals and an F lever, nothing else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weFpKOh-150

[Doug Beaumier]

I tend to agree with you, Ray. There are a lot of things a steel player does Not learn when he uses pedals excessively.

[Ben Jones]

maybe so but i aint spending years on a lap steel

I didnt have the benefit of being forced to do so and its too late now.

I understand what your saying tho, wish i had that experience.

[Tony Prior]

well I have a different take and I will ask it in a different way.

how many of you can play a 3 chord song using the basic triad chords under the 5th fret on your 6 stringer ?

I suspect the answer to Ron's question and to this one is "many of us , probably most of us ".

Can I play a song with a MAVERICK ? Sure, why not. Can I play a song with triad chords under the 5th fret on the 6 stringer ? Sure why not.

but

By adding a lever here or there or a substitution chord here or there you are opening up the fretboard and the opportunity to play different phrasing or as Joe Pass says, adding color. The more chords we know or the more phrases we can play by adding a lever pull allows each of us to create a bit more.

I do however believe that there are many of us that have not really executed a 2 ped / single knee lever setup which I believe is a stepping stone to more gadgets hanging under the Steels. All the notes are there, they are just in a different place !

good topic Ron..

Tony

[Doug Beaumier]

Playing non-pedal steel will improve one's pedal steel playing IMHO. Non-pedal forces you to find chord voicings all over the neck that you might not be aware of if you use pedals all the time. ...also more slides, slants, bar movement, etc.

[Robert Harper]

I never use a "C"edal, I wish I did. I have been told that slants are taboo on E9. I wish I could do them. Picking up the bar is taboo. I wish I was better at this. Also I was told that E9 was created to be able to play a song entirely on one fret. I play Faded Love this way. I mentioned this one time on the forum and was told "Why would you do that?" I tell yous guys to me, the more you can do the better you are. Unfortunatly. I started play a PSG at 34 not 4 and damn I have to work to pay the bills and It doesn't seem anyone is getting wealthy. I

[b0b]

I have been told that slants are taboo on E9.

Only people who can't do them say that.

[Dustin Rigsby]

hmmmm....If this is the case why in the world were the changer systems developed to what they are today ? Most of what I use is A and B and F lever. Now I agree that non-pedal stuff is ultra cool for certain styles of music. So were the great pioneers of the instrument just lazy for adding pedals and levers ?

[b0b]

More pedals and levers will give you more choices of positions for anything you want to play. More choices make it easier to string phrases together without large, sudden bar movements.

Ideally, there should be 3 different places on the neck where you can play any given part. This gives you a choice of timbre, and more logical "sliding" connections to pull things together.

By the time you reach 3p+4k, the number of positions and combinations is for all practical purposes unlimited. At that point, people add pedals and levers to get specific licks in specific positions, often to avoid doing a slant or bar movement.

[Waisznor]

b0b,
you surprised me the second time ! Excellent playing and tone !