Is Non Pedal good early training for Pedals later?

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

It seemed to work for me. and a lot of players went that route.
I remember playing a Supro 6 string, a National New Yorker 6 string and a Vega D8 from 1936 to 1942 WWII and 1945 to 1947, worked fine and had plenty of work back then.
Those early years gave me a good background on Steel Guitar, and made it easier for changing to my 6 pedal Gibson Electra-Harp in 1947....al. Smile

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Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

IMHO, I too, believe that a firm grounding in a non-pedal tuning, is tremendously important to anyone desiring to step-up, into the pedal steel world.

Not absolutely necessary.......but extremely helpful, in understanding what it is that pedals are doing and WHY!!!

If one can play easily in the open E-9th tuning without pedals, using slants and all else to acquire the ability to play melodies; the first application of the A-B pedals will make far more sense to the newbie.

Dean Gray · From: New South Wales, Australia

After several years of playing dobro and non pedal steel, I have started out on PSG. I absolutely believe that trying to get the melodies and chords I was hearing in my head out of those instruments has helped me in my first attempts on the pedal steel.

Even going to an 8 string non pedal in a 6th tuning was a revelation compared to the G dobro tuning. Learning slants and finger pulls to try and replicate what pedals A and B do has given me an understanding (admittedly a very basic understanding) of how and why those pedals can be used, as Ray Montee suggested.

Dobro and non pedal steel teach us how to hold the bar, how to wear the picks, how to mute strings, how to pick, and how to make music, all without worrying about pedals and levers. I believe I would be having a much harder time at learning pedal steel if I was a complete steel novice, and was trying to learn all these other things at the same time as trying to remember what lever or pedal does what.

And no, I am not abandoning the non pedal steel! I am recording some parts tonight for The Antikis debut CD (tentatively titled "Dream Lava") on the Deluxe 8....I am just on my way to building a bigger collection!
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Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

Indubitably...new players are more often than not
eager to use,and over-use,those exciting pedals
before getting to know the ins & outs of the basic
tuning,fingerboard positions etc...many of our heroes
of the instrument would get by w/ fewer pedals...
but it´s up to the individual,if it sounds right &
feels right,Your method of learning probably IS
right for You...McUtsi

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I think that when one has played non pedal for a good while and is beginning to bump up against some of the limits of his or her tuning (and every tuning has them) is when you begin thinking about extra necks adn what tunings to put on them. After saying for years that I'd never play pedals, I have finally ordered one. And on one neck I'm getting C6, A6, C6/A7, F9, D9, A11 and probably some others I've failed to notice yet. I think that without having explored non pedal first the full significance of this could not have been nearly so readily appearant to me. Also, the fact that I have been so dependant on slants for so long and have developed them so well is going to allow me to play each of these tunings that much more effectively.
I don't intend to entirely give up the non pedal guitar either. But I do think that the pedal guitar is going to be my favorite by far. After all, it's probably 8 or more nonpedal necks in one.
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Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

Good thinking,Edward...and don´t let Your slants
deteriorate as You start using pedals...I use slants
on the PSG as well,sometimes in combination w/ pedal
action,it increases the variables even more.McUtsi

John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

I think it would be an ordeal without some experience with non-pedal.
I found and restored an older 10-string PSG and I'm starting to play with that. I'm finding that the transition is fairly easy for me. I have it set up and tuned in a Universal style with an eye toward playing the B6(B13) and A6 sides of the tuning. I made into an extension of what I already know, so it feels pretty natural.
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Allison Stringed Instruments
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Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Chris Scruggs · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

".....you might decide to stay off pedals and save some money."

That was always one of my arguments for avoiding pedals. The weight and the complicated (to my mind) mechanism were two more. But in the end I just had to try the pedals. I think you're right. It's not for everybody. But I think anyone interested enough in getting some good chords out of it to try several tunings and/or 10 or more strings.......that was eventually what won me over-the efficiency and effectiveness. But I haven't actually got the guitar yet. This is only a test. Still, combining pedals with non pedal techniques seems somehow like it makes one a comlete player. That's just my prejudice, I suppose.
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J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

... and then, playing non-pedal is, as Maurice Anderson once put it to me "the boy's stuff!"

I think, to put my words into it, it's where you can't cheat - you want to play MUSIC, you have to do it yourself.

I have just recently gone back to PSG after an 8 year self imposed exile (or kick back to school) into non pedal. I am a much better PSG player now (IMO). Things come flying to me... PSG is EASY! Very Happy

... J-D.

Mark Roeder · From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

I maybe out of line since I don't play PSG, but now that I have been playing non PSG for sometime I can see where the pedals could add to what I have learned. I would caution the person who starts out on pedal to learn to use the bar to express yourself and not get caught up in the mechanics of the pedals. The bar is your voice.

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

JD´s isolating an issue that´s crucial to our
approach to Steel-playing ; there´s basically two
possible routes,or two types of player,one of whom
studies licks,intros,turnarounds,fret positions and
what pedals to activate for the modulation...the
other type is not so preoccupied with the basic
tuning,he/she approaches the guitar almost like a
piano,gets to know where all the notes are to con-
struct chords & lead lines,a more theory-based
concept ; there´s room for both kinds & all the
in-betweens,we´re individuals,thank God,but it IS a
good idea to get to know the fretboard theoretically
before the pedals steal the show.McUtsi

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Actually, I have come away almost completely from theory. What has come to work out best for me, after years of trying "this" and "that", is to approach it like somebody who's whistling strolling down the avenue. Our brain and the way it handles music has it's own way of organizing music, and it has become evident that it is by the means of intervals. Really, a note out in space has no musical value, it's just as travel advertisers put it; it's not about WHERE you go, but HOW you get there. It's the intervals which tell the story.
Just as we don't "think" about any theory whilst whistling, I believe there is no big need to project big theories into steel guitar. It's one of the most interval graphic instruments in existence, especially if you don't have pedals or KNOW what interval changes they produce... and THERE is lays the problem with many PSG students, they don't care to explore and learn to see, how their changes affect their tuning in terms of again, in terms of intervals.

The non pedal steel is a better suited instrument to learn to "see" what you want to hear in distances, moves, intervals than the PSG. The non-pedal steel is a good entry into PSG too, because by the means of common slants it prepares the student to understand the changes he/she will find on their PSG because that's also their historical origin (how they came to be).

... J-D.

Don Wright · From: Roseville California USA

I tried to learn pedal steel in the 1980's. mid 1990's and in 2003. As a 6 string spanish guitar player, it was too frustrating and made little sense to me. After a few years of concentrating on dobro and 6 string lap steels, I moved up to a mid '50s 8-string triple neck Stringmaster. I learned so much on that guitar with various tunings and techniques that I really started to understand the "fret" board and all the steel guitar stuff I had previously tried to understand started to become obvious and logical to me. The kicker came when I was at a local music store last year and they had a highly modified Sho-Bud Maverick on the floor. It was one of the early maple ones with the big pro-style key head. It also was modified to have 4 knee levers in addition to the A-B-C pedals. Still remembering in theory what the pedals and one of the knee levers were supposed to do, I sat down and, holy cow! I could play it. I hadn't touched a pedal steel in many years, since I gave up on them. And yet, for the first time, I could actually make music on one. It had to be all those years on the Dobro and Triple 8 that opened my eyes without me even knowing it. I bought that little modified maverick. I still can't play pedal steel and sing at the same time - too much going on. From watching and listening to other pedal players, I don't think I'm unique in that aspect.[/code]
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Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

To answer the question...YES.

R2

Mitch Druckman · From: Arizona, USA

Reece Anderson wrote an illuminating essay on the subject. I won't try to paraphrase him, but instead refer you to the article.

http://www.msapedalsteels.com/html/advantage_.html

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

Tak about going bakwards.When i first sarted playing steel in clubs i had a D8 fender stringmaster.Later bought a Multicord just to see what the pedals did.So then went to a Fender 1000.
Now as i no longer play steel i have been thinking about looking around for a S8.Some time back i had Reece Anderson send me his CD playing the old non pedal instrumentals.
Sure brought back some pleasant memories.Tracy

seldomfed · From: Colorado

yup. It's a good way to focus on basics like how to handle a bar, pick strings, play in tune, theory etc.
Then when you move to the pedal world, there are fewer things to try and master simultaneously.

Actually, start on any instrument but pedal steel if you've never played anything before. Get music and rhythm under your belt, then try steel.

I'd suggest banjo.

Here's why;
- you'll get comfortable using finger picks and an open tuning.
- then you can move to lap steel
- then to pedal steel
- then give up the banjo

The big advantage to this plan is there will be one less banjo player in the world Laughing

chris
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Rhythm Cats - steel, guitar, banjo, dobro
Gold Canyon, AZ
www.rhythmcatsshow.com
www.seldomfed.com

Robert Tripp · From: Mesa, Arizona, USA

I certainly hope so. I figure if I can learn some basic open tuning stuff, bar technique, fingerpick technique and start using a foot volume control, it'll be like first learning how to ride a bicycle. Then when I get some experience, it'll really be like riding a bike as I make the transition over to Pedals. Feet, knees, elbows and hands everywhere as I slide around on the seat looking for balance while trying to watch the charts, and listen to a backing track for practice. Hmmmm sounds like this gets harder instead of easier.

Rob

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

One of the best things I ever did for my PSG playing was to stop using the pedals for a while.

What I discovered after giving up the pedals was that it forced me to learn the basics of the tuning. I also finally learned how to navigate around the neck more so then I ever would've when the pedals were there to make the moves for me.

Ultimately when I went back to pedals, I felt I had gained an understanding of WHY the pedals/knees do what they do. I could visualize the slants I needed to do and apply the pedals instead.

I also agree that there is a different stylistic approach when you think of pedal steel as a country lick machine vs a single neck steel that can quickly be changed into at least 6 or 7 tunings on the fly.

Try playing sometime where you never press pedals and/or knees during a sustaining passage, only during a silent moment. Its a much different sound.
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Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

I had the advantage of taking lessons on "Hawaiian" guitar when I was a kid. So many years later when I bought my first pedal steel. I already had the bar/intonation and vibrato techniques learned. So I was able to pick up the PSG much faster.

Also I want to say AMEN to what Greg Gefell said

"One of the best things I ever did for my PSG playing was to stop using the pedals for a while."

I have been playing non-pedal steel almost exclusely for a few years now. (because of portability and quick setup times)

But just the other day I dusted off my pedal steel and I was amazed that I had Improved my playing tremendously! Without playing the PSG I had gained an ability to find two and three note chords all over the neck.
(My non-pedal is tuned to A6- which is essentially E9 with A+B pedals down)
I am so excited because I thought I would lose my "chops" but instead I gained a whole lot of new ones I never played because I would always just hit a pedal or lever to get a note. Now when I use a pedal it is because I want too, it's not just a habit.
Dom

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