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Topic: Volume/Tone Pedal Technique |
Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 18 Apr 2009 12:48 pm |
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After listening to a LOT of Eddie Rivers lately I dusted off my Fender V/T pedal (vintage--not RI). There's no mystery about how to use it and I 'get it'. I've got a good one--real smooth--and I'm trying to work it in to some classic swing style.
As a beginner (to this pedal) I sometimes get some great wahs but sometimes I spazz with the swivel. Obviously, practice, practice, practice.
In additional to practice, any tips?
I'm going to sneak an electronics question in here----this pedal has, I'm pretty sure, a 250K volume pot. On a humbuck'd steel it definitely cuts highs (I have it hooked into a loop pedal for instant in/out switching to confirm this). Too much so for my taste. I am correct that a 500K would therefor be indicated, right? Not that I'm eager to go inside there and change out the pot. It was hard enough working a dental mirror in there to read the value.
If I did go to 500K, how would that affect the pedal's operation with a Stringmaster? |
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Lee Jeffriess
From:
Vallejo California
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Posted 18 Apr 2009 9:01 pm
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Jon, I wouldn't sweat the value to much,
I have always pretty much used a 500K Vol control in my Fender VT pedal.
For the past 4 years I have had a Dunlop 470K, what can I say these pots are unbelievable.
I used to hunt all over kingdom come, for dead stock AB's, not anymore.
Tom Bradshaw indicated to me that he may be able to get them in 250K also?.
I think your Stringmaster will sound fine with either, do you use it in humbucking mode?.
BTW, a week or so ago I posted a schematic on the electronics page, it shows you how to wire, both the Vol and Tone with the new Dunlops.
Lee |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 19 Apr 2009 5:00 am
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Thanks Lee. Definitely don't want another 250K---I don't mind a little loss of highs but I'm thinking of using this pedal for PSG too and right now the pedal is way too dark, even wide open.
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| I think your Stringmaster will sound fine with either, do you use it in humbucking mode?. |
Is that with both pickups on or with both necks on? I've never had that straight, re: humbucking. I usually play with only one neck on and with the tone control backed off a bit on my '54 26" D-8 which, I believe, means that both pickups are on---as opposed to the tone control full-on cutting off the neck pickup?
Do you totally dismantle the pedal when changing a pot or do you do it all thru the bottom oval hatch? That's where I lose enthusiasm--that's a tight squeeze.
I'll look for the schemo you posted. Thanks again.
edit:
Found the schemo and also got my answer about the hatch on the thread in Electronics. |
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Lee Jeffriess
From:
Vallejo California
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Posted 19 Apr 2009 9:04 am
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Jon, humbucking mode, would be with both PU's on, on any given neck, but I guess having one or more necks on would be hum canceling too.
As for the rebuild, you do have to dismantle the pedal.
Lay the pedal upside down and remove the bottom plate.
Remove the Vol pot string from the pulleys in the heel end, and the bobbin(pot shaft).
Undo the two pivot screws, and lay the bottom assembly over to left, next to the jacks.
Its pretty straight forward, the hardest part is resisting the urge not to launch it out the window, when you cant get the Vol string back on LOL.
Once you have replaced your pot, put the bottom back on set the Vol full on, and re wrap the string on the shaft bobbin then the lower pulley(top assembly remember we are upside down) up to the second pulley.
At this point, keep the two parts in the full on position, you are re stringing with the control wide open, so everything else has to be in that place.
Hopefully this helps.
Lee |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 19 Apr 2009 9:41 am
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Outstanding, Lee. I've got that printed out. You've saved me a lot of grief. I'm closing all my windows to safeguard against outward-bound flying objects.
Thanks a bunch for taking the time to step-by-step that. It should be a keeper in the permanent data base--it is in mine.
This all unquestionably belongs in Electronics. But I'd love to keep this alive for my first question----fishing for playing tips. I've already concluded that if I find myself spazzing out with the foot swivel I'm probably overusing the effect. A little goes a long way. Use more taste, less wah. |
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Lee Jeffriess
From:
Vallejo California
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Posted 19 Apr 2009 10:36 am
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The original intention for this effect, is to imitate the mute's used by the big band horn players.
Speedy, Jody Carver and Rico Turchetti are some of the masters of Doo Wah.
Lee |
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Bob Hickish
From:
Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Apr 2009 7:01 pm
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Jon
to add a little to Lee's words - your tone pot string may
have slipped to the base end of the pot giving you the mud
I have one and what Lee said -------
"the hardest part is resisting the urge not to launch it out the window"
I never did get past the "spazz" I prefer a hand volume for the
sound .
Good luck
Hick |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 20 Apr 2009 5:04 am
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| Hey Bob---although this pedal has a good, big tone sweep, that is something I should check. It wouldn't be at all good if the tone control isn't opening all the way up (actually closing, technically). I'll check it out. |
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2009 10:44 am
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Since we are on the topic of tone controls I thought my question would still fit this thread. I'm going to rewire a stringmaster singleneck. One diagram I found shows a 250 tone pot and another diagram I found shows a 1 meg tone pot. What is the difference between them regarding the Boo-wah effect.
Mark |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2009 2:56 pm
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I would think 1 meg would be the correct value for the tone pot. That's the value of the tone pot in a Fender steel guitar.
Chris Scruggs |
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2009 3:00 pm
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| What is the characteristics of the different values on the Boo-wah effect? 250 500 or 1 meg |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2009 4:26 pm
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All will work. Jerry Byrd used a 500 in his Rickenbacker, Speedy West used a 1 meg in his Bigsby.
If you listen closely to these two players approaches to "wah wah" playing, you will hear the difference in tone. Compare and contrast "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" by Hank Williams with "Shotgun Boogie" by Tennessee Ernie Ford.
CS |
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Lee Jeffriess
From:
Vallejo California
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Posted 20 Apr 2009 4:39 pm
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Chris, I don't know about the tone control on Speedy's guitar, but the Bigsby VT pedal specs are 1meg audio taper Vol, and 100K linear taper tone, the cap is a .1
I don't think pot values are that critical, as long as you have audio taper for Vol.
I think Linear is preferable on the tone, but audio will work(in a pedal application).
Its always a good idea to play with cap values, i personally like to split the difference between the Bigsby and Fender spec (.069)
Lee |
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2009 5:53 am
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I'm guessing that whether you are working the controls on the guitar or a V/T pedal your suggests work for both?
Thanks for your help and info, I'm always amazed how this site supports its fellow players.
Mark |
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Mark Roeder
From:
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2009 6:14 am
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| Here is a Pots 101 question, is the 1meg higher than the 250k and the 500k? I'm really a beginer at this. |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 21 Apr 2009 10:15 am
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| 1meg is 1000K. Or more commonly seen, 500K is .5meg. |
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Chris Turchetti
From:
Rhode Island, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2009 4:31 pm DOO WAH ( Rico Turchetti)
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The original intention for this effect, is to imitate the mute's used by the big band horn players.
Speedy, Jody Carver and Rico Turchetti are some of the masters of Doo Wah.
Lee
Thanx Lee , My Dad does the Doo Wah in several songs on his CD.
I always wondered though ( 35 years later ) just how my Dad used to make his Guitar say " I Want My Mommy" , Granted , the last time he did it for me, my skull wasn't fully hardened yet , but I remember it !! Anybody have an explanation , or am I remembering something more in my heart than in reality ? Thanx again for the kind words. |
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Lee Jeffriess
From:
Vallejo California
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Posted 21 Apr 2009 4:51 pm
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Chris, Your father was one the greatest pioneers of the steel guitar, and it sincerely breaks my heart, to think how over looked he is.
You are welcome
Lee |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 23 Apr 2009 2:23 pm
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I've never really compared vol/tone notes with anyone, but I set my pedal so I get my normal tone at the full on (far right) end of the tone pedal sweep. I've heard of others setting their normal tone to the middle of the sweep, but I can't imagine trying to find the center position as you're cranking it back and forth. Whenever I want to go back to my normal tone I just quickly crank it hard right until it stops.
Some of my favorite techniques are the aforementioned muted horn sound - pick a triad or strum a chord with the tone pedal on the full bass side and sweep the the right. Repeat as needed. The crash bar doo-wah is a gas! I do it with the volume full on/tone full off and crash the bar on the strings while sweeping the tone to the right. It requires some practice to get the right touch on the crash. Listen to Speedy West's version of "Lover" for an intensive course on this technique. It goes very nicely with a 13th chord. The fun is in mixing these techniques, or tricks, in with your playing. To me it's a lost art - to some a cheesy gimmick. Mine were basic - anyone else have any vol/tone pedal tips to share? |
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