Egnater - Rebel 20, the dream-come-true amp?

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

www.egnater.com - www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Dec/Egnater_Rebel_20_Review.aspx

This amp is a reletively low priced 'boutique' (killer?) amp that has some incredibly well thot out advantages that take it at least a level above most other amps now available. A pair of EL34s and 6V6s in one amp, that can be blended(!), and a wattage knob to allow from 1 to 20 watts. Unique, I believe.
It's been getting mixed reviews on Harmony Central from the rock crowd, but this may prove to be a steeler's #1. But, alas, no reverb...

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Well that depends on HOW they get the variable wattage,
and a host of other issues. Potentially a very cool amp.

The idea of mix and match componetns compatible with
a master chassis is nice for the non amp builder,
which is MOST people.

I am designing a 18w/36w with 6V6 / EL84 pairs.
And tunable to which ever power or preamp tube
you want going into distortion earliest etc.
I don't really ever want to hear a full 38w coming out.
But the blending of levels is the goal.

The hardest part is to build it idiot proof.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

There are some scratch and dents on MF for only $431 including shipping! The lack of amp reverb won't matter to a lot of steelers. I can get far batter reverb out of an RV-5, RV-7 or MPX-1 than even most tubes amps offer. If I got this amp, I would add a mid-shift control circuit to tune the voicing a bit closer for the steel. The add on 1-12 cabinet is really reasonably priced and it seems you can get one of these new for about the price of a used Fender Deluxe Reverb.

Greg

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

That's got to be the deal of the week. Where's my stimulus check?!

Of course we could just wait untin Harley Benton www.thomann.de bust out their version for 1/3 the price...

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I played one at NAMM and was quite impressed - it has rich, round overtones even at low volume (with a low-wattage speaker). Could be a very good home practice amp with the right tubs and dialed-in correctly. For many steelers, though, I think it would no have enough headroom - it breaks up REAL early. But for tub amp guys who know how to work with their equipment I think it'd be great amp with a 2x12 or 2x10 cab and a little analog delay (not reverb! Sounds too washed out at low volume.

There are a lot of low-wattage alternatives, though - even the cheap Epiphone tube head sounds terrific with the right speaker, and it's a fraction of the price of the Egnater. On the other end - even less power but similar pricing - is my ZVex Nano, with a thundering 1/2 watt of all-tube power. Sounds great through a single-12 Greenback cab and for REAL low-volume playing it has plenty of headroom and incredible tone.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

I was wondering how soon the Rebel would start to fuzz up, but it sounds like it would be OK in the settings you stated, and maybe even better if some mods were done.
I always refer to the Epi Valve Jr. when considering new amps, as they are hard to top, especially when modded to suit the steel.
BTW, here's the even cheaper alternative to the Jr. - www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_ga5h.htm which has gotten good reviews as well.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Rumors on the Tele Forum are that the Harley Benton GA5 *is* the Epi Jr with an added tone control and a different case.

Plus one slight problem - a 240V power transformer. They're not made for the US market. By the time you convert one to US power and pay shipping and import duties it's not quite so inexpensive any longer...
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

That is valuable info for us in the US, Jim, thanx!
Kinda takes the luster off of it.

I've heard the same about the amp having had the Epi ID ground off!

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Pretty much yes, identical basic circuit,
except an EQ Board added just before the output tube.

Even the same graphics program to do the fronts and same cream paint.
Different cabinet finish and the tone control.
The Epi logo was removed from the circuit boar,
the fronts are fresh paint.

With the EQ addition it is a better amp.
With the mod'ing capabilities it is a cool platform to start with.

It is still a fine building block and lots of great mods can be done easily.

I took a VJ added a master volume, a dual concentric volume and high roll off pot pair,
and lowered some of the signal caps to pass more bass,
now it is a NASTY sounding Harp amp and my friend plays out with it
3 nights a week with a open back 1-10" extension cab added.
It is a horrible guitar amp now,
but it's NOT a guitar amp anymore.

The HB gives you a pre-built EQ to start with,
it could have 2 more pots added and make a TMB EQ.

A lot of people are swapping output tranny for a Hammond 125ESE.
Cleaner tighter lows and more power handling possible.
Then you can switch to a wormer or hotter octal tube like a 6V6 or even a 6L6.
Or add another EL84 power tube in parallel.
I do know of one cold running EL34 conversion; darned loud for a SE amp.

You can Fenderize it Marshallize it or Voxize it.
Many mod's all done and tested.
There even are comparison charts of parts for each version vs stock.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Cool reports, and I was gonna ask about swapping trannys for a bigger power supply. This makes it very sexy again!

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Da Geezer yanked the PC board,
did his own turret board and circuit design.

Replaced the output tran with a smallish push pull one.

Then did a two 12AX7 and two EL84 amp running on the original power tran.
He said the PT doesn't run hot. So no worries,
it was over-rated for the job.

But that is more work than just replacing the OT
and a few caps and resisters in an existing chassis.

They built it rather tame for the average snook to enjoy,
but you can make it nasty with a little soldering skill.
But remember to FULLY discharge the caps before going in with fingers
and
ALWAYS use the One Hand Rule when turned on.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

...for those wondering about the One Hand Rule, always leave one hand in your pocket, so in case a high voltage shock happens, it'll go thru your arm to your hip and bypass your heart, which is the killer aspect of such an accident. But you'll have to get a new arm and hip... Razz

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

I have a 3mm rubber sheet under my work area for live amps.

Oh yes, also take off watch and jewelry.
Nothing like getting your wedding ring fused to a lead,
and then heating up to 300°f... oops.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.

Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many!

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

OK - back on topic of the Egnater Rebel 20 - by the time I called, that scratch 'n' dent was gone, but I waited around until another came up and grabbed it. It came last week, and I fiddled around with it a bit this past weekend.

First - it's made in China, but seems to be well built. The tubes are mounted to the PC board, but it seems to be pretty sturdy, and everything is well enclosed and not bouncing around at all - it's not like protruding knobs that get bumped and then trash the board.

Running into my Thiele cab loaded with an EVM-12L speaker, it was pretty damn loud. On guitar, there was enough juice to get me fired from some bands I've played with. Definitely lots of classic old-Marshall style crunch if you crank the gain, but it did clean up reasonably well. Sorta' reminded me of the 18-watt amps that Marshall has been making the last few years, but it seemed more versatile and obviously a lot less expensive.

The 6V6/6BQ5 blend knob works well - it's a subtle but important difference, and the center position with both power tubes on sounds quite good. There are switches for "Bright" and "Tight", and again they're subtle but still quite noticeable and useful, to my tastes. The Watts control is probably the least useful to me - the sound thins out a lot in the lower "Wattage" position. Maybe using it just a little is OK if you want to throttle back a bit on a gig, but extreme usage sounds too thin to me. The tone stack sounds fine - it's a pretty neutral sounding amp, which I appreciate. The Master and Gain controls work well.

If you follow the extensive discussions on this amp on The Gear Page, you'll see there was an issue with the effects loop when used with some effects. They made a modification (look for an "M" preceding the serial number for a fixed version, mine has the mod). I found the effects loop worked just fine with the pedals I tried it with - still need to check out the Holy Grail.

In general, I liked the amp immediately for guitar, but I immediately noticed a clicking artifact as notes decayed. Knowing that they're using Egnater-branded Groove Tubes, I figured I better try some different tubes to see if it was my usual nemesis - modern foreign-made tubes. I hear varying good and bad reports of JJ and EH 12AX7 preamp tubes, but I admit I'm not a fan.

I just yanked all three preamp tubes and tried some of my 10-15 year old Chinese-made Ruby tubes that I stashed a bunch of - they have that old 50's rock and roll midrange peak - and plugged in a Tele, Strat, and Paul. All the artifacts disappeared, and this thing went into '59 Bassman/Plexi-Marshall territory with the Paul. Really nice, I'm pretty confident it will work for a 'pushed' PSG sound just fine. The Tele and Strat sounded good, but not enough snap, crackle, and pop for me. I tried a NOS Telefunken 12AX7 in the first preamp stage (V2 on their chart) - that evened it up a lot, and the Strat sounded great, but the Tele was a bit lackluster. I use the Tele to gauge whether or not I'll like it with a steel, and I definitely want dual guitar/PSG use with this.

So, as per usual, I drug out a 12AY7 and 5751 to put in V2 - and suddenly the Tele came alive. The difference with the 12AY7 (an old NOS rebranded by Groove Tubes a long time ago) was remarkable - add some reverb and it's very close to a Deluxe Reverb - very spanky with lots of juice. Both the 6V6 and 6BQ5 sounded good. The Franklin sounded very good in this mode - of course, my favorite tone with that steel is through my old blackface DR, but it's not loud enough for most situations. I don't know if this will be loud enough, but the 12AY7 opened up a lot of room in the Gain control. With the Les Paul, I was able to dial in my usual Mike Bloomfield style tones at low to medium gain settings, and then push it for more classic Marshall tones. The only thing it lost was the more extreme tones, which doesn't bother me a whit. With the 12AX7, I couldn't turn the gain past 2 o'clock, with the 12AY7, it's usable about all the way up.

What I like about the amp is that it's pretty transparent to the tubes - tube changes seem to make quite a bit of difference in the final sound. If I want to rat it up a bit, I could find a pair of really ratty 6BQ5's, and then match that with a pair of really clean 6V6's, and then be able to toggle or mix them. In fact, I'll probably try that as soon as I can locate some good 6BQ5's.

I haven't had a chance to use this on a gig yet, and that will determine whether this is a keeper or not. But for $431 with a shoulder-strapped carrying case, it's a pretty durned good little amp. The metalheads gripe that it doesn't have enough bass - yup, if you want that extreme bottom-end death metal thing, it probably isn't enough. But for blues, 50s-70s rock and roll, country or anything like that, it has plenty. A lot of it is up to the cab. But I really like the size and weight, and this clean blows any Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville or any of that stuff out the window, to my tastes.

I thought some of you might like to hear a report. This is not an obvious choice for PSG, and it may not cut it in the end - but I think it's worth a shot. But I'm pretty confident it will be a pretty cool guitar or nonpedal steel amp. I'm about to check out the Ricky 6/8/6 that just arrived from TC Furlong. 3 horseshoe pickups on one steel - it may just be too much to stand. Smile

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

That should help prospected buyers.
Sounds like way too much amp for me tho.

Love to see pix and clips of the triple neck!

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