UPS Store Shipping and Russian Roulette, about the same !!

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 5 Mar 2009 6:46 am

Got a Nashville 400 chassis in this week with one thin layer of bubble wrap and air bags in the bag. Was it damaged? Well the sides were bent inward, the heat sink bent backwards (resulting in six broken pots) and the box only showed only small dent.

Folks, you can't let these people decide how to pack your gear!!!

Another amp today, a Session 400 with a thin layer of the smallest bubble wrap known to man. Package then filled with peanuts! So far no damage found. My shop looks looks a hurricane hit it after getting the amp out of the box!!

Last week I got in a nice MSA, U12 from UPS. Packed in peanuts!!! Steel was tight to the ends of the box, no bubble wrap. Steel survived and the case was destroyed!!!

Here is what UPS says about packing peanuts:

Expanded polystyrene "peanuts" (loose fill)

* Used primarily as void-fill material for lightweight items
* Overfill the box with loose fill, gently close the flaps, and seal securely
* Do not use with flat or narrow products that may move to the edge or bottom of the carton in transit
* Due to the shifting and settling properties of peanuts, it is recommended that a minimum of two inches (5.08 cm) of cushioning be used around the contents
* It is recommended that flat pieces of corrugated fiberboard be used between contents and peanuts to help prevent migration through the peanuts
* Peanuts cause static electricity and may damage electronic items. Anti-static peanuts should be used for electronic items. Use plastic bags, bubble sheeting, or other items to wrap the item so peanuts will not work themselves into areas that may cause harm to your merchandise.

Notice, they do not follow their own guidlines when packing at the UPS Stores.

I hate to rant, but I get tired of seeing damaged gear.

Last year I spent over $500.00 for bubble wrap, plastic stretch wrap, tape and other forms of packing supplies.

When an amp comes in a thin or damaged box I have to go to the local music store and try to find something to ship the amp in that will survive the trip.

Please pack wisely, avoid packing peanuts and use a good box. I want your amp to arrive safely!! UPS and other packers really do not care in general how they pack them up!!!

John Lang · Post by **John Lang** » 5 Mar 2009 7:28 am

Well said, and a lesson learned.

What they do over at the UPS store when you're in there looking for shipping material is try and talk you into letting them do the packing for you, on the basis that it's cheaper in the long run.

Take Ken's advice and don't do it, people.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 5 Mar 2009 8:38 am

Ive heard people say "I let them pack it so then THEY are responsible if it gets damaged".
Thats kinda like saying you dont have to be carefuil crossing the street cause if a truck hits you it will be their fault.

I'd never let someone else pack my stuff , but people do all sorts of weird things. Couple days ago i received a wooden crate, with thin bubblewrap wrapped around the OUTSIDE of the crate. why?

John Lang · Post by **John Lang** » 5 Mar 2009 8:53 am

That's another good point Ben.

The UPS tries to get you to let them pack by telling you that if they pack it you get a better deal on insurance, if you pack it it has to be in a box inside a box to be insured, blah, blah, blah.

After all, what is the sense of insuring something like a vintage amp that is difficult, if not impossible to replace at any cost? Go figure.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 5 Mar 2009 9:40 am

Ben Jones wrote:Ive heard people say "I let them pack it so then THEY are responsible if it gets damaged".
Thats kinda like saying you dont have to be carefuil crossing the street cause if a truck hits you it will be their fault.

I'd never let someone else pack my stuff , but people do all sorts of weird things. Couple days ago i received a wooden crate, with thin bubblewrap wrapped around the OUTSIDE of the crate. why?

That was me, Ben and if you can't see any logic in it, you need to just move on to a different plan. And no I don't ever advise just dropping it off to them and hope they do it right. Never have, never will. I pre-pack my stuff, then let them pack my package. Then they are responsible to follow through on their insurance. You need to use a little common sense--it goes a long way.

If you walk in and set a speaker or an amp chassis on their desk expecting them to do a class A job packing you are dreaming, and then you might as well just pick it up and slam it down on the cement floor and get it over with. As Ken says, they do not have a clue, and most of them do not even care.

You are barely better off using these shippers vs. just driving across the country yourself and delivering it in person.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 5 Mar 2009 11:29 am

Ken, that $500.00 is the same here. I pack my cases in medium industrial bubble wrap ( 2 layers, 2 inches thick all around. Then put that in a a heavy duty industrial carton. Then ship Fedex or U.S. Post Office only. Never had a problem. The cost of packing materials alone is $12.00. Industrial tape also. Packing is EXTREMELY important.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 5 Mar 2009 11:42 am

"That was me, Ben and if you can't see any logic in it, you need to just move on to a different plan."

James, might have been you, might have been any one of a dozen other posters who think letting UPS pack their stuff is a good idea. I really dont understand why you would say that anyway, as you just said you pack your own stuff THEN let ups pack that. I think you know that is very different than what we were talking about.

as for me, my plan is sound and i wont be moving on to a different one. I've been a professional shipper for years sending out literally thousands of valuable and fragile items and have never had an item I personally packed been damaged.

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 5 Mar 2009 11:47 am

I don't know if Ken remembers this. Over a year or so ago I sent my PV LTD Chassis to him to be modded. I had a Colman type plastic cooler that the chassis would fit in with an in on all sides. Covered the components open side with cardboard and filled all voids in the cooler with closed cell foam block. It made it to Kens with out damage. The UPS guy could have chunked it off the truck in a high speed drive by delivery and it would have made it just fine. When Ken finished with the mod he returned the chassis in the very same cooler unharmed. Did it coast more, probably. Was it worth it, yes, I love that amp and never want anyone to damage it. Oh, by the way the mod works great, Ken did a super job. And I hope that cooler didn't get in his way while he was working on my amp. He didn't keep the amp long enough to get use out of the cooler.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 5 Mar 2009 11:48 am

Ben Jones wrote:

I really dont understand why you would say that anyway, as you just said you pack your own stuff THEN let ups pack that. I think you know that is very different than what we were talking about.

Well I'm say that, because they have a bad habit of denying claims. If they pack it, then they pay the claims.

No I don't know that is very different than what we are talking about, unless you mean something other than what you wrote.

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 5 Mar 2009 12:18 pm

I had 1 item packed by the shipper only because I didn't have a propper carton.They wanted me leave it and they would pack it later.No,No,No.I watched them pack and it was a good thing that I did.The lady was gonna put plastic around a Laquer body.She wasn't very happy with my input,but it got packed properly...PJ...

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 5 Mar 2009 12:57 pm

"No I don't know that is very different than what we are talking about, unless you mean something other than what you wrote."

sigh....Im not here to argue with you. The basic thrust of the original post is "dont let ups pack your stuff". THATS what we were talking about in this thread. You were talking about packing your own stuff and then taking it to ups and letting them pack over it. If you cant see how that is completely differnt than the topic being discussed...

man, nevermind...forget it.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 5 Mar 2009 1:06 pm

What ever, I guess it's unclear to me what you really are saying Ben.

It works for me to pack it myself, and if I intend to have it insured, have them pack over it. They can't deny a claim if they do that. And it helps to have it double packed. That's all I am defending. Have a good one. It's unimportant.

Ben Turner · Post by **Ben Turner** » 5 Mar 2009 1:53 pm

Whether it's a $100 amp or a $2000 amp I always wrap that sucker up like it's a priceless boutique, 4-5" of bubble wrap, thick double or triple braced cardboard in the front baffle area and the rear, I even fill the inside cabinet with packing. You never know what these things go threw once they leave your possession and thus it's not worth taking any risks - Like Ken said, splurge on the bubble wrap and packing materials, do whatever possible to avoid the headaches of the claims departments.

I'd never use UPS to begin with. I've been in retail for years and received packages that were totally destroyed. Water damage, box ripped to shreds, contents ruined. However, I have NEVER (knock on wood) had any problems with FedEx. I've also bought/sold/traded amps here and other forums for years and have never had anything damaged that I've shipped via FedEx. on top of great service, they usually offer the lowest prices.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 5 Mar 2009 2:23 pm

James same to you man. no offense meant. I think we are essentially in agreement with each other.
Cheers.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 5 Mar 2009 2:30 pm

Come down to Dallas next week Ben, and i'll buy ya a brew!

Gary Gould · Post by **Gary Gould** » 5 Mar 2009 2:36 pm

Anyone shipping with a UPS Franchise Store had better read the fine print. When shipping with these guys you give up all rights and they become the shipper. I found this out the hard way with a 8K guitar. I even called UPS Corporate, they said so sorry, UPS Stores are not connected to them. Don't beware of UPS Stores, just don't use them, if you must use UPS go to the real UPS facility in your area. Enough preaching.

John Lang · Post by **John Lang** » 5 Mar 2009 3:20 pm

Thanks for pointing this out Gary, I had no idea. And of course, they don't mention any of that at these places.

Good thing I only ship things once in a blue moon, I don't think I could sleep nights worrying about things in transit after hearing all these horror stories.

Gary Gould · Post by **Gary Gould** » 5 Mar 2009 3:41 pm

Other than the UPS Stores, I've actually had good results with everyone else. I've had claims over the years with Fedex,UPS, USPS and they've always paid up for a claim, the biggest thing to remember is give them everything they ask for quickly. I've never had a claim take longer than 2 weeks. UPS Stores don't exist in my world.
I ship probably 8 to 10 times per month, and I've probably had only 6 or 8 claims in the last 5 years.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 5 Mar 2009 3:50 pm

What's Freddie Roulette got to do with it?

OHHHHH, RUSSIAN roulette. Never mind.

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 5 Mar 2009 5:05 pm

Amen. I would not trust them to package a basketball.
Lefty

kyle reid · Post by **kyle reid** » 5 Mar 2009 6:17 pm

As mentioned above, UPS stores are franchised, & not owned by UPS, Therefore, they charge more than UPS,A few years ago, I had them ship a D-10 & fortunately the buyer agreed to pay the shipping, the cost was $230.00 including insurance, I could of shipped by Fedex for less than $50.00, but the buyer wanted it shipped UPS,& did not dispute the shipping cost, I will give them credit for a great job of packing at a cost of only $20.00, but I will only ship Fedex in the future!

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 6 Mar 2009 5:50 am

I see several hundred amps a year coming in here for repairs and mods. Most are packed adequate. FedEx seems to do the best job, but a poorly packed amp was hammered once by them as well.

I am a FedEx and UPS shipper. However FedEx pickup policy has forced me to ship primarily UPS now.

UPS will pick up next day for a flat $3.00 fee or free if they are in the area.

FedEx charges $14.00 per week an d will slide it down to $9.00 if you ship a certain amount. No exception an no free pickup, even if they are here delivering.

It is 12 miles to the FedEx drop off and we delivered packages there for over 2 years for shipping. I just do not have the time anymore to do that.

I just have to pack well and say a prayer as it goes out the door now!!!

Alan Kirk · Post by **Alan Kirk** » 6 Mar 2009 7:08 am

You have to pack as if it will be run over by the UPS truck, dropped from a three-story building, and tossed down a steep canyon.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 6 Mar 2009 7:55 am

When my daughter graduated from the Rhode Island School of Design two years ago she boxed up all her artwork and materials and sent them home via DHL in five boxes. When they arrived, four of the boxes had come open, and a lot of her artwork had fallen out. I had DHL check every step of the way that the boxes had travelled and they only found a fraction of the artwork. I couldn't understand what they would do with any items they found in their shipping areas. It must have occured to them that anything they found must have come out of a shipment, and put the items to one side, but no, some of the items disappeared without trace. No amount of insurance can compensate you for irreplaceable items.

So, anyone being dissatisfied with UPS, don't expect any better service from any other carrier.

On the other hand, a lot has to do with packing. I've sent steel guitars across the Atlantic without damage, but I assume that damage will occur, and I double wrap everything, in bubble wrap, rubber, etc., and then cover the entire surface in adhesive tape.

Al Udeen · Post by **Al Udeen** » 6 Mar 2009 10:56 pm

We can all be relieved & fortunate that DHL is no longer in business!

The Steel Guitar Forum

UPS Store Shipping and Russian Roulette, about the same !!

UPS Store Shipping and Russian Roulette, about the same !!

Packing for the trip...