Pedal Steel Seat Design

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 23 Feb 2009 9:23 am

I am totally disgusted with the current steel seat design state. They are bulky, heavy and not very comfortable. I've begun using one of the scissor leg keyboard seats and it is easier to carry, and fairly comfortable.

I don't know that I can do any better than what is offered, but I am going to build myself a "better" seat! I have been giving this a lot of thought, and hopefully, something will come from it.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 23 Feb 2009 10:08 am

Bill , at the risk of offending the seat makers on this forum, i agree 100%.

-too heavy
-too expensive
-takes up too much room
-wont hold my pedalboard

I use a collapsing x keyboard seat with 3 inch padded seat.
-cheap
-lightwieght
-comfy
-takes no room in the car
-$1.99 thirft store hardshell suitcase holds the pedalboard, cables and everything else you guys might put in your pac-a-seats

Pac a seats look like a really cool accessory that every steeler should have...until you see what they cost and how heavy they are.

YMMV no doubt

Brian Kurlychek · Post by **Brian Kurlychek** » 23 Feb 2009 10:12 am

I use a drum throne, and carry my extras around in a computer case.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 23 Feb 2009 11:47 am

My Steelers Choice Seat with back rest and Side Kick is the best thing that ever happened to my stage setup. Super plush comfortable when playing. Like I'm sitting in a Cadillac. You just have to be able to afford it. You only ever get what you pay for. Buy cheap, get cheap.

Chris Brooks · Post by **Chris Brooks** » 23 Feb 2009 11:54 am

Like Brian said, get a drum throne.

1. They are padded.
2. The height is adjustable.
3. They take up less stage footprint.
4. They are easier to settle when cords are running all over the place or when stage floor space is at a premium.
5. They are durable: My Tama is 30 years old.
6. They come apart and fit in your 1952 Samsonite suitcase--along with cords, boxes, rags, cables, fuses, 9-volts, volume pedals, and other necessities.
7. They swivel so you can reach around and tweak your amp withouit shifting position.

Just my opinion, though . . . .

Chris

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 23 Feb 2009 12:53 pm

I have a Steeler's Choice sidekick with back. It's the best one built today and has a heavy seat cushion. It is heavy, once my Volume Pedal, effects, strings, cables, etc are packed in the seat - but not as heavy as my Nashville 112 amp or my steel.

There is always room for innovation and improvement in almost anything. The seats could be made of a different, light weight material rather than the wood that all are made from now as long as it is sturdy and can stand up to use. If it was properly reinforced the stuff they make "ATA" cases out of might be an alternative. Something with a seat back, properly placed for lumbar support, would be a must for anything I would consider. I built several seats when I lived in Kansas City but never considered the ATA material at the time (several that I built that are over 15 years old are still in service).

I tried a drummers throne (when I was a lot younger) and within 30 minutes my back was hurting. A piano stool is no different.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 23 Feb 2009 1:54 pm

do you guys lean back when you play?

I find that much like a pianist, I am hunched slightly forward and over the instrument when I am playing, so a back rest would only get used while I am not playing

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Feb 2009 2:36 pm

They are bulky, heavy and not very comfortable.

I agree. The tendency to design a seat built like a tank is something I could never understand. I mean, how many people throw these things off a cliff, anyway? $:\$ Most of them could be used as a jack stand for a Hummer!

ray qualls · Post by **ray qualls** » 23 Feb 2009 2:56 pm

Most of you guys are in the minority and its usually the minorities who holler the loudest! Ken & Dan Rollans has sold probably more Steelers Choice seats than all the rest put together. They must be doing something right to stay in business this long. At least my back isn't hurting from sitting four hours on a stool! Buy you a good 2 wheeler to carry your heavy stuff on! Do you sit on a kitchen table chair watching your tv? Most of you uses a recliner or sofa that comfortable! MHO Ray

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 23 Feb 2009 3:14 pm

While a fold up keyboard seat might be fine for a bedroom picker, they are totally impractical for a working steeler. You only have to do a longer gig to find out the value of a seat back...and you need somewhere to store your stuff !! And a good bit of cushioning for your bum (and I haven't got a big one)

Steelers choice with back and sidekick is the way to go for me -- I have 2 of them.

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 23 Feb 2009 3:16 pm

No doubt, the folks who build the seats do a good job, but the basic design is about the same. Some have backs, some don't.

Still, they are bulky, heavy, and hard to carry. I haven't found any to be much more comfortable than the keyboard seat I now use.

People who like these seats can keep buying them, I'm not one of those.

I don't want to build a seat, I wish I could buy one. Fact is, there is nothing out there for guys like me. I have a design in mind, when I build it I will post pictures. I plan to build only one; I already have a full time job, and it ain't building seats!

Maybe the seat builders will start to think outside the norm soon.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 23 Feb 2009 4:39 pm

Bill Duncan wrote:Maybe the seat builders will start to think outside the norm soon.

I doubt that will happen. building steel guitar seats is a cottage industry that sells only to a niche market. To use plastics would include some amount of tooling and/or mold-making which would probably be cost-prohibitive.

What might be more feasible, would be to build a traditional steel-seat with a telescoping handle and wheels, similar to those "TravelPro" overnighter pull-cases used by pilots and stewardesses.

My loaded-up seat is heavier than I'd like, but pales in comparison with the weight of my steel or amp.

Dan Rollans · Post by **Dan Rollans** » 23 Feb 2009 7:03 pm

I want to thank Kevin,Jack,Ray,Tony and my far away friend Paddy Long ,as well as all those who enjoy Steelers Choice products. Yes, we have been building our seats basically the same way since 1978. We have made some changes over the years, mostly from ideas and suggestions from our fellow players. Some have been very practical,while others have been too costly,although good ideas. I am well aware that our seats will not meet the needs of each and every steel player in the world. Certainly there are many other options to consider. Ray Walker,Dan Sliter,Thom Beamon,Gene Fields and others offer fine products,as well as the basic piano stool and drum throne.
So, to all Steelers Choice customers past,present and certainly future, thank you.
And to those totally against the current pack seat design and concept, Steelers Choice or others, I sincerely respect you and your opinion. Besides we all have one thing in common: THE LOVE OF THE STEEL GUITAR! Thanks again,Dan Rollans owner/operator of Steeler's Choice. Hope to meet you all in Dallas!

Dan Rollans · Post by **Dan Rollans** » 23 Feb 2009 7:03 pm

oops,please remove,double post,

Dan Rollans · Post by **Dan Rollans** » 23 Feb 2009 7:04 pm

please remove,double post

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 23 Feb 2009 10:29 pm

Tony, thats a great idea, but if you built a seat like that with a telescoping handle and wheels then it would add to the cost and the cheapskates would complain about that also. I hate cheap.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 23 Feb 2009 11:57 pm

Kevin Hatton wrote:Tony, thats a great idea, but if you built a seat like that with a telescoping handle and wheels then it would add to the cost and the cheapskates would complain about that also. I hate cheap.

I would gladly pay extra for this option. Anything that spares the ol' lumbar spine is well worth it.

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 24 Feb 2009 4:11 am

I don't think "cheap" should enter into the steel seat discussion. We play instruments that are certainly not cheap. I would pay for a sturdy, well designed, light weight, easy to carry, seat. Cost, although a factor, is not my first priority. To imply that to want another design option means that a person is thinking "cheap", is not reality. Light weight, easy to carry, and convienient most likely would not be cheap.

I am using a keyboard seat now because it is convienient and easy to carry, not because it is cheap. I have a conventional Pac-a-Seat. It is heavy, difficult to carry, and a hassle. It wasn't cheap either.

Easy to carry doesn't necessarily mean light. Something can be heavy and still be comfortable/convienient, to carry.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 24 Feb 2009 5:53 am

Ben wrote:

"do you guys lean back when you play?"

Not when I play, no, but during a two-hour show there are plenty of times when I'm relaxing and leaning back in my 'Steelers' Choice' seat. It's a bit heavy, I agree, but that goes with the quality. I love the side-compartment where I can keep strings, a tuner, picks and all sorts of other stuff I can get at without standing up; it's an absolute boon to me.

I have two of them, and there's been zero deterioration in either one, so Ken and Dan aren't going to get rich from me. They have, however, provided great follow-up service a while back when I wanted the legs lengthened - I decided I wanted to sit higher to the guitar.

These days I take the seat with me even when it's NOT a steel gig - I like the storage space which is necessary even when it's just a guitar 'call' and I'm stuck in an orchestra pit.

It's nicely padded, too - as am I.....

Ray Walker · Post by **Ray Walker** » 24 Feb 2009 6:36 am

Having read these posts, I will echo what Dan Rollans said. You just can’t please all the people all the time. On the other hand, we who do make seats want to make the best….most practical…and most comfortable seat. And yes we would like to make some sort of modest profit for the time we work and the investment of stock. Speaking from experience, I can assure you that not one major seat builder is making a lot of monies…..heck I would even go as far as saying….low wage earners for what we do. If you take the raw goods for example. In order for us to make the “small” profits we must buy parts and raw materials in large quantities. That means we have to constantly put up our monies and leave it to sit on our shelves while we make the seats….and then wait for the revenues to return from sales before we see the profit. Then by the time we use up those materials the prices of the raw goods have shot up as well as additional costs to get those materials shipped to us. All of this happens and the customer would surely rather not pay extra…because…after all that’s the seat builders’ problem. I am not complaining to you…just giving you the real facts so that you may better understand what the real deal is. Regarding the fact that seats don’t normally come with the option to extend the legs. It costs more than just the materials and designs. It costs valuable time for a very few people. In order for us to make the quantities that are required to maintain the minimal profits, we must keep things down to certain models. Can it be done??? Sure but at what cost??? Beside, folks, I have used the same height seat for as long as I can remember. I don’t know but a handful of people that actually need to change their seat heights, and they are doing some different things on stage than just playing pedal steel. Regarding the weight of the seat….some are heavier than others, but empty they are almost all tolerable. Now have a look at what we put in them. Heck I load my “show” seat with two of everything. But even with that weight “I” put inside, I wouldn’t trade the comfort and convenience for anything. To sit on a piano stool and then “carry” the accessories in a separate case or gig bag is simply unacceptable to “me”. I know some players who use two cases for their steel. I tried it…..no way I am making extra trips. When I can no longer pick up my steel in the case and go play a gig, I’ll quit playing out and just leave the whole thing set up here in my home and enjoy whatever is left in life.
Over the years, I have made every effort to make a lighter and lighter seat without compromising the seat’s true intended purpose. Comfort…durability….organized compartments….reliability. I have one model that hold everything you need for a gig and weighs only 11lbs 4 ounces. I have another that holds two of everything including two volume pedals and weighs less than 14 lbs. Both of the seats mentioned sell for a few bucks more than I see “used” seats selling for right here on this forum. How does that figure into folks’ mind??? Who knows?
Finally, Bill since it was your post and you do live right here in North Carolina….heck come on out and share your ideas…I’ll always listen. See the process first hand. You would probably be a bit shocked at what all has to happen behind the curtains and you may even feel sorry for me and spend the day helping me in the shop. Now I am just kidding.
I think I make the best most affordable seat on the market….and I am supposed to think that right??? Well if you don’t want to buy one of mine, then for goodness sakes get one from Dan Rollans because he also make a great seat. And I’d also be willing to bet that if you are down Arkansas way he won’t turn down a visit and a little help from you too. If neither of those seats suits you, then for goodness sake go ahead and build you one with our blessings. I own two Rains guitars but I am in the process of building one myself. I believe I already own the best playing guitar on the market and I know I will have more monies tied up in the one I am making and a whole lot more time….but then again I am doing it for a little fun, and not to replace what I have.
I just want to say thank you to all of you guys and gals who use our seats. It’s what allows us to keep going in this business. If everyone were to build their own steel guitar and accessories then there wouldn’t be an industry for us. I hear so many complaints from folks that say what ever happened to real country music and pedal steel guitar. Nashville sells music to those who buy. When sales go down the tubes…as it did with traditional country….the industry starts trying new things. The ones that actually make money stays….the ones that don’t get left behind. If the job you have keeps cutting your pay each week….you’ll eventually have to find another job to pay your bills.
By the way, I was looking at a new product just the other day. If it will work, it would make seats lighter “empty” than they have ever been. Unfortunately, it is three times the cost of the currently used material. How many do you think we could sell like that???
This is a great discussion topic, and can easily move from one product to another.

Ray Walker
Walker Seats
919-524-1774

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 24 Feb 2009 7:08 am

I've always thought pine might save some weight over plywood.
It's certainly the case with speaker cabinets anyhow.

Of course there's molded fiberglass with aluminum reinforcement, but I imagine that would really jack up the price.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 24 Feb 2009 7:09 am

Okay, repect to the builders and users, good luck with your product and for those that love them, more power to you but:

My gigs are 45 min max.
When im onstage Im playing not reclining.
When im at home watching tv, yes i sit in a recliner. hows that figure into this at all?
what does a concert pianist sit on for hours?
orchestra chairs? this is the only instrument I'm aware of where players feel they need special seats.

Your loaded pac a seat may not weigh as much as your guitars. A small fridge might now weigh as much either. I dont want to have to carry either of those to a gig if they are not needed.

as for being cheap...why would I want to pay over $300 for something that does the job less well than something I can buy for $39.99?

Maybe someday I'll see the merits of your trad steal seat, but for now I guess they just arent for me.

ray qualls · Post by **ray qualls** » 24 Feb 2009 7:37 am

This world is made up of "Leaders" and "Followers"! The Leaders get out and get things done. They take their ideas and follow up on them. The Followers just sit back and whine. If you don't like the way something is made, get off your whining butt and become a leader. JMHO Ray

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 24 Feb 2009 8:22 am

Im leading Ray. My idea is that that the current steel seat design leaves much to be desired. I'm following up on that idea by not purchasing one.

Hey man, sorry if i hurt anyones feelings. we were discussing the merits and shortcomings of the current standard seat design I thought? sorry if my contribution to that discussion was out of line or "whining".
No offense intended. I guess im with this guy:

The Steel Guitar Forum

Pedal Steel Seat Design

Pedal Steel Seat Design

Thanks from Steelers Choice

Thanks from Steelers Choice

Thanks from Steelers Choice

Whiners

leaders and followers