Would this be at all fun?
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- Gary Stevenson
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I know it's pedal BUT just listen to the variations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ9y5JawONA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ9y5JawONA
- Doug Beaumier
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Beautiful playing by David Hartley, as always.
This version brings to mind the "extra measure" issue. Why do some players insert that extra bar after the first line in every verse? Hank didn't play it that way on his original recording. I know that some songs go through changes (no pun) as the years go by, new versions, variations, etc., and I've worked with singers who put the extra pause in this song, but it drives me nuts! It may be a variation, but I'm calling it "incorrect"
This version brings to mind the "extra measure" issue. Why do some players insert that extra bar after the first line in every verse? Hank didn't play it that way on his original recording. I know that some songs go through changes (no pun) as the years go by, new versions, variations, etc., and I've worked with singers who put the extra pause in this song, but it drives me nuts! It may be a variation, but I'm calling it "incorrect"
- Don Kona Woods
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Doug laments,
I believe it is because the continuity of the song is affected or lost. The mind needs closure and this extra interval does not allow for it. IMHO
I am with Doug on this.
Aloha,
Don
Why does it drive Doug nuts?I've worked with singers who put the extra pause in this song, but it drives me nuts! It may be a variation, but I'm calling it "incorrect"
I believe it is because the continuity of the song is affected or lost. The mind needs closure and this extra interval does not allow for it. IMHO
I am with Doug on this.
Aloha,
Don
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- Doug Beaumier
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Yes, there's an extra bar after the third line...
I just wish that musicians would not "rewrite" the classics. When I say 'rewrite', I'm not referring to substitute chords... that's a lot of fun and it can sound really good, in my opinion. But adding parts and adding beats that are not in the original song really bugs me.
"I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" originally had 8 bars of I (chord), and over the years musicians have spruced it up with I, Imaj7, I6, etc. That kind of chord motion enhances the song in my opinion. But when I hear the extra pause in Cold Cold Heart it sounds like the player made a mistake! I'm reminded of the singer with poor timing who comes in late with the next line!
[tab]
COLD COLD HEART 4 beats each chord
D D D A
A A A D
D D D G G
A A A D
[/tab]
I just wish that musicians would not "rewrite" the classics. When I say 'rewrite', I'm not referring to substitute chords... that's a lot of fun and it can sound really good, in my opinion. But adding parts and adding beats that are not in the original song really bugs me.
"I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" originally had 8 bars of I (chord), and over the years musicians have spruced it up with I, Imaj7, I6, etc. That kind of chord motion enhances the song in my opinion. But when I hear the extra pause in Cold Cold Heart it sounds like the player made a mistake! I'm reminded of the singer with poor timing who comes in late with the next line!
[tab]
COLD COLD HEART 4 beats each chord
D D D A
A A A D
D D D G G
A A A D
[/tab]
- Rick Alexander
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Doug, you are correct sir!
I bet Hank added that measure so he could take a nice deep breath to belt out the hook line.
In all fairness, he would make up for it by sometimes dropping a measure and coming in early.
We just followed him, because he owned he bar . .
I bet Hank added that measure so he could take a nice deep breath to belt out the hook line.
Hey, I used to work with that guy!I'm reminded of the singer with poor timing who comes in late with the next line!
In all fairness, he would make up for it by sometimes dropping a measure and coming in early.
We just followed him, because he owned he bar . .
- Doug Beaumier
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I'm with you Doug on the issue of Due Diligence. It's either right or exhibits a "Close enough" attitude that doesn't really belong in the pro world of music.
In David's case he was gentlemanly leaving space for the over exuberant Floyd Cramer wannabe..IMHO
BTW in Hanks version it's an 18 bar sequence whereas on the Don Helms video on YouTube, Don plays it as 17 bars, so I made it an even 16 and completely missed out the extra bar of 4 halfway through, and the extra bar of 1 at the end of each cycle.
In David's case he was gentlemanly leaving space for the over exuberant Floyd Cramer wannabe..IMHO
BTW in Hanks version it's an 18 bar sequence whereas on the Don Helms video on YouTube, Don plays it as 17 bars, so I made it an even 16 and completely missed out the extra bar of 4 halfway through, and the extra bar of 1 at the end of each cycle.
- Alan Brookes
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- George Piburn
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When I was in college, there was an older man who frequented all the live-music clubs. Invariably, he would get up to sing the same two blues standards no matter if the band was rock, reggae, or whatever. Anyway, his sense of form was off the charts, even for a 12-bar blues. If you still had three bars left on your solo he might come back in, starting a new verse on or before the turnaround.
Eventually he put together a band of his own. A friend of mine who became his guitarist went over to "Pop's" house to study the material they were to play. He said that the old man's records had skips and that's why he sometimes came back in singing in the wrong place.
True story.
Eventually he put together a band of his own. A friend of mine who became his guitarist went over to "Pop's" house to study the material they were to play. He said that the old man's records had skips and that's why he sometimes came back in singing in the wrong place.
True story.
- Doug Beaumier
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I don't mind odd timing in the original recording. My problem is with players who Change the original timing of the song, add beats, chop off sections, etc. Here's a radical example: I played a few gigs with a guy many years ago who played "Together Again" in 3/4 time. He insisted that the song was (or should have been) in 3/4. Ever try playing Tom Brumley's beautiful solo for that tune... in 3/4? I didn't play with that guy too long. Wrong timing is almost as bad as wrong chords, in my opinion. But that's a whole other topic...
- Alan Brookes
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Well, changing 4/4 to 3/4 is rather a drastic example, but I've heard many versions of Cold Cold Heart sung be various artists who don't use Hank's key or his phrasing. Last year, when I was recording the tune at Basil's place, he had a backing ready made-up with Hank's phrasing, and I found myself continually being thrown off and coming in at the wrong place, yet I've had the Hank Williams recording since I was a kid and thought I knew the song inside-out. I'm going to be working on a version of this today to put in this thread, and I'm hesitant about not upsetting anyone. Maybe I should listen to Hank's version while I'm playing.Doug Beaumier wrote:...Wrong timing is almost as bad as wrong chords, in my opinion. But that's a whole other topic...
- George Piburn
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- Alan Brookes
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- Roger Palmer
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- Doug Beaumier
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- Todd Weger
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Odd time signatures
Not to thread drift too far, but I used to play with some old country guys (as opposed to guys from "the old country") who would routinely play songs pretty much differently every time we did them. They just had this way of coming in with the verse or chorus where they wanted. As annoying as that is when you're playing lead breaks, and trying to figure out what they're doing, there was a rustic charm about it that I liked. Yeah, there -- I said it.
How about some of the odd (to mainlanders, anyway) 21 bar Hawaiian songs like Pua Kealoha (21 bars counting in 2/4, which makes more sense to the form to my ears). It's funny, but when I first heard that song, I couldn't figure out how they knew when to change, but now, it just feels natural and great.
Funny thing, this moo-ZEEEEK.
How about some of the odd (to mainlanders, anyway) 21 bar Hawaiian songs like Pua Kealoha (21 bars counting in 2/4, which makes more sense to the form to my ears). It's funny, but when I first heard that song, I couldn't figure out how they knew when to change, but now, it just feels natural and great.
Funny thing, this moo-ZEEEEK.
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass
- Doug Beaumier
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Yes, like when you play a big "walk-up" to the chorus (I to IV)... as the band plays another verse instead! So it sounds like You made a mistake!They just had this way of coming in with the verse or chorus where they wanted. As annoying as that is when you're playing lead breaks...
One time about 25 years ago I did a fill-in gig with a band I had never met before... I don't remember their names or even the club we were at, but I clearly remember that they had rearranged every song to "extend it for the dancers". Many bands do that by adding a extra chorus at the end, but these guys would play like, three verses in a row, and then maybe two choruses. It was maddening because didn't know where the songs were going, even though they were all country standards and hits of the day that I had played hundreds of times with other bands. It's hard to play backup when the band changes the arrangement of standard song.
That was a l-o-n-g night.
- Alan Brookes
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http://www.7161.com/streamer.cfm?filena ... k_id=18961
Okay, for better or worse, pulled out of the archives. You'll remember that I restored a Fender Stringmaster for Basil two years ago. This was recorded in Basil's studio.
Alan Brookes playing that Fender Stringmaster.
Basil Henriques playing a Fender D8 Pedal Steel.
It's obvious which is which. Basil plays the introduction, a section in the middle, and the last few bars at the end. I play the verses.
Okay, for better or worse, pulled out of the archives. You'll remember that I restored a Fender Stringmaster for Basil two years ago. This was recorded in Basil's studio.
Alan Brookes playing that Fender Stringmaster.
Basil Henriques playing a Fender D8 Pedal Steel.
It's obvious which is which. Basil plays the introduction, a section in the middle, and the last few bars at the end. I play the verses.
Last edited by Alan Brookes on 7 Jan 2010 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alan, E-mail me the mp3 at basilhenriques@hotmail.com and I'll host it for you.. The streaming version isn't playing successfully..
- Alan Brookes
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Thanks Basil. I imagine you've already got a copy of the recording on your computer. My problem was that it was recorded as an .m4a file, so when I downloaded it to the file server it didn't work. Since then I've downloaded a conversion programme from the internet and converted the file to an .mp3. I've changed the shortcut on the original posting, so hopefully it should work now.basilh wrote:Alan, E-mail me the mp3 at basilhenriques@hotmail.com and I'll host it for you.. The streaming version isn't playing successfully..
http://www.7161.com/streamer.cfm?filena ... k_id=18961