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Topic: dobro, round or flat bar |
Jeff Hogsten
From:
Flatwoods Ky USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2009 9:41 pm |
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| I have just taken up dobro. I used to take lessons from Jimmie Crawford who was a great dobro player to and he used the same bar he used for steel. I have been told the flat bar is quiter. I have a shubb with the round nose and a round steel bar one of the birthstones. It does seem the shubb is a little easier to not get noise on hammer ons and pull offs but the round bar is so much easier to do slants. On the other hand a lot of those guys done seem to be using slants at all. So which is the best way to go |
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John Drury
From:
Gallatin, Tn USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2009 3:40 am
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Jeff,
I am having a time of it with various bars also. So far I have tried a Stevens steeel, a #2 Scheerhorn Stainless, a Sally Van Meter Shubb, a Black Rajah, and a round Brozman Hawaiian type bar.
I am going to try a Shubb-Pearse #1 with the bullet tip but so far the Brozman is the only one that I can control at all. It is somewhat difficult on hammer ons and pull offs but I think I can make it work.
I remember Jimmy using a larger bullet bar, and once saw Tut Taylor using a flat piece of steel held in a very strange way.
I am about to say screw it and stick with the Brozman bar against all advice. I am getting tired of having the Stevens type bars squirt out of my hand and have to chase it around the room.
I almost put a nasty ding in the top of my new Phil Leadbetter Gibson with the Stevens bar, luckily it hit the cover plate and bounced off. No more of that!
_________________
John Drury
NTSGA #3
"Practice cures most tone issues" ~ John Suhr |
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Todd Weger
From:
Safety Harbor, FLAUSA
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Posted 10 Jan 2009 7:55 am I'm having same issues...
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I've been using my tapered bullet while playing my tricone doing bluegrass style playing, but want to learn to use the straight edge bars. I have a Stevens and a Dunlop version of the same, and they ARE better for hammer-ons and pull-offs. They are much cleaner and defined for those open string positions. But I started with a bullet bar, and it's hard for me to adapt to the straight edge of the Stevens. I'm used to playing single note lines with the bullet nose (tipped up forward), and getting used to tipping it back the other way is messing me up.
I'm going to force myself to learn to play both bars for the differing styles if it kills me though. I think it's worth the work to have the skills to play either bar for the particular style one is doing.
Good luck!
TJW
_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass |
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Bryan Bradfield
From:
Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada.
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Posted 10 Jan 2009 8:25 am
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I used a Stevens for several years, then a Lap Dawg for several years, then when I started playing pedal steel, I had some 1" diameter stainless steel stock cut into flat ended pieces of the exact same length as the Stevens bar. In the same way that I fall in and out of love with certain of my resonator guitars about once a year, I also swap over to a different bar about every other year. In other words, I might use the round bar for a couple of years, then go back to the Stevens for a couple of years.
About the only bar that I've absolutely disliked and refused to use is the very old flat Hawaiian steels.
I should add that I don't stick to any one particular style of music. My last gig was backing up a Tom Waits stylist in a heavily amplified situation. The gig before that was a country harmony duet acoustic evening. And the date before that was backing a contemporary singer songwriter.
Todd - I do tip my bar almost constantly for single string work. With a bullet nose, I "push" against the string. In other words, when playing the first string, the point of contact is on the bass side of the first string. On the other hand, when using a Stevens type steel, I "pull" against the string, meaning that the point of contact is on the treble side of the string. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 10 Jan 2009 6:30 pm
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| shubb-pearse #2 |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 10 Jan 2009 6:51 pm
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I'm 71 and obviously have used many types of bars since I took lessons in 1948 using a flat bar. However, like your guitar, your strings, your style, the bar is a very personal item and what suits me, somebody else wouldn't take a 2nd glance at. I couldn't recommend a bar to anybody, other than maybe the Stevens bar for a beginer because they're easier to handle for a newbie. Personally, and I say again, personally, I use the Shubb-Pearse 2. I like it because it's heavier than the Stevens bar. I'm a heavy handed player but I don't like a big clunker in my hand. It's all a matter of preference as far as I'm concerned. I have a large collection of bars, including a piston ring from an old car, which were used by many who couldn't afford to buy a bar back in "those days".
Geo
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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John Drury
From:
Gallatin, Tn USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2009 7:24 pm
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| George Rout wrote: |
| I'm 71 and obviously have used many types of bars since I took lessons in 1948 using a flat bar. However, like your guitar, your strings, your style, the bar is a very personal item and what suits me, somebody else wouldn't take a 2nd glance at. I couldn't recommend a bar to anybody, other than maybe the Stevens bar for a beginer because they're easier to handle for a newbie. Personally, and I say again, personally, I use the Shubb-Pearse 2. I like it because it's heavier than the Stevens bar. I'm a heavy handed player but I don't like a big clunker in my hand. It's all a matter of preference as far as I'm concerned. I have a large collection of bars, including a piston ring from an old car, which were used by many who couldn't afford to buy a bar back in "those days". |
George,
Did you mean the wrist pin, that connects the piston to the small end of the connecting rod?
My very first bar was a Triumph 650 wrist pin.
_________________
John Drury
NTSGA #3
"Practice cures most tone issues" ~ John Suhr |
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2009 7:38 pm
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I think it depends on what style you want to play. I play bluegrass style so a Stevens style bar works for me. I'm not saying you can't play bluegrass with a round bar. Lloyd uses a round bar and listen to his( he could use a comb and get great tone) tone. Mike Auldridge uses a stevens, listen to his tone.
Tony |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 11 Jan 2009 7:55 pm
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Yes John, you are correct, it's a wrist pin (pic attached). Don't know what made me say piston ring other than I'm slated to have hip surgery in a couple of days and I guess my mind isn't 100% on the subject!!!!
And Tony, I guess that is what I was saying that the bar is "what suits me"/"what suits you". It is a personal item.
Thanks to both
Geo
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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John Drury
From:
Gallatin, Tn USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2009 8:47 pm
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| George Rout wrote: |
Yes John, you are correct, it's a wrist pin (pic attached). Don't know what made me say piston ring other than I'm slated to have hip surgery in a couple of days and I guess my mind isn't 100% on the subject!!!!
And Tony, I guess that is what I was saying that the bar is "what suits me"/"what suits you". It is a personal item.
Thanks to both
Geo |
George,
I figured you meant wrist pin. Best of luck with the surgery!
_________________
John Drury
NTSGA #3
"Practice cures most tone issues" ~ John Suhr |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 12 Jan 2009 12:12 am
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I have seen two styles of pull-offs taught: Sally Van Meter uses the bar to pluck the string, and for that style you must have a bar with a flat end. The other style is to quickly lift off of a string that is already sounding without damping it, and that can be done with any style bar.
If you are playing bluegrass ala Jerry Douglas with repeated fast pull-offs and hammer-ons you'll probably want a Tipton or Tipton style (Lap Dawg, Scheerhorn, Bradley, etc.) bar with a sharper angle on the edge.
Unless the style you want to play dictates a certain type of bar, you can use whatever seems to work best for you. Mostly you just need to pick one and stay with it for a while. |
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John Drury
From:
Gallatin, Tn USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2009 5:31 am
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Jeff,
There you have it, these guys advice seems to point in the same direction, use what feels best unless you are going for a particular style like Jerry Douglas as Lynn mentioned. In wich case, God help you, the laws of physics do not seem to apply to Jerry.
At the moment I am vascillating between the Black Rajah, and the Broz-O-Phonic. Bar sizes are identical, different material/finish, different tones.
I am out on the Stevens type steel, just doesn't seem to do it for me.
_________________
John Drury
NTSGA #3
"Practice cures most tone issues" ~ John Suhr |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 12 Jan 2009 7:32 am
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Jeff, your question is asked here every so often, so I just grabbed one of my posts from a thread a while back on the subject:
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You will find as more folks chime in, you can play the thing just fine with a bullet bar - but as far as playing really fast stuff with a lot of dexterity, not saying it can't be done - but I don't know of one top player who plays the dobro as his/hers first instrument that uses a bullet bar. But I suppose you can get used to anything.
"Stevens" has become sort of a generic term (like Kleenex for all nose tissue - or for that matter - like "dobro" for all squareneck resonator guitars) that is often used by steel players in referring to any number of what I call "sculpted" bars. The Stevens was one of the originals, and when I started on dobro in the 70's, it was about the only one around. I have a really nice one, I think the plating quality was better back then, but I rarely use it now. I do like the Stevens for songs with a lot of slants.
Think of Jerry Douglas, Rob Ickes, Mike Auldridge, Randy Kohrs, Phil Leadbetter, Andy Hall, Jimmy Heffernan, and so on - never a bullet bar. And Heff used to play steel for guys like Brad Paisley and Joe Diffie, but he uses the sculpted bar on dobro. And Mike Auldridge is still known to use an actual Stevens, but he uses other bars - I just don't know how often.
There are some really good dobro players that are known more for their steel playing, like Californians Pete Grant and Greg Leisz, that use a bullet. I don't know what other great steelers like Paul Franklin and Tommy White use when they play dobro - but I'm guessing bullet. As great as these guys are, I personally don't think you can vary the dynamics as much with a bullet bar on the dobro, it seems to have a more "even" sound no matter what types of licks you play, if that makes sense. I believe that a sculpted bar gives you the ability to impart different nuances to your playing - it's a difficult thing to get across with the written word, easier to show in person.
There are a number of really nice sculpted bars available these days that have IMO, been improvements on the Stevens, sort of a "build a better mouse trap" thing. Like Howard R, my favorite sculpted bar is the E.G. Smith.
You can check out the Smith bar on the link below @ Greg Boyd's House Of Fine Instruments:
http://tinyurl.com/2rxozs |
_________________
Mark |
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Jeff Hogsten
From:
Flatwoods Ky USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2009 1:50 pm
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| well it seems to come down to this. If you want to play bluegrass you have to use a bar that is not round like a tipton or GS for pull offs. Being a steel player I much prefer the round bar but IM going to but a flat one and give it a try, probably a tipton. I just wonder if someone could make a round bar with a flat end or something on the end to get the pull off. Seems people have tried to make flat bars with a round end like the shubb one. Maybe they are going at it backwards. Just a little lip that would stick out a little past the end |
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