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Topic: Bobbe - Dearth of steel in New Country |
Paul E. Brennan
From:
Dublin, Ireland
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 4:54 am |
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In one of Bobbe's recent mails he talks about the lack of steel in today's New Country.
Perhaps I haven't heard a lot this so-called "New Country", but I hear a lot of high quality steel (and guitar and fiddle) on songs from the likes of Brad Paisley, Josh Turner, Daryle Singletary, etc. Is this New Country? Is it the case that a lot of the real dross does not make it to this side of the Atlantic?
Just curious  |
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Mike Headrick
From:
South Pittsburg, TN, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 7:43 am
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| I don't think these artists are exactly square with the "New Country" Bobbe was referring to. These three examples are as close to Traditional as modern Nashville will let them get. These guys have their roots and heart in the right place, and they're the exception. The artists that are the rule nowadays wouldn't know a country song if it bit them in the Watuzi! |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Jan 2009 9:23 pm
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 Thank you Mike, YES!
Bobbe |
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Bob Bowden
From:
Vancouver, BC, Canada * R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 6:23 am
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Traditional country???
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Roual Ranes
From:
Atlanta, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 8:31 am
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Bob Bowden,
Nope .....that is Western........ala Sons Of The Pioneers......Riders Of The Purple Sage. |
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Randal Smith
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 3:06 pm
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I think what Bobbe's talking about are groups like Rascal Flatts, Lady Antebellum, Sugarland and artists like Taylor Swift, Miranda Lambert, etc. While I like some of the music, I wouldn't really call it country.
Lady Antebellum? What the hell kind of name is that for a country group?
_________________
Randal Smith alias Smitty the Kid
Nashville, TN
Simmons SD10
Warmoth Custom Guitar
Gibson GA-20 Amp
"We have enough youth, how about a Fountain of Smart?" |
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Kenny Martin
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 6:26 pm
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I think this falls in line with the "To old looking" to play with what they call "Country" these days!
Todays country is pop rock from the 70's and 80's!
Hey let me ask you guys this as a new member of the forum: "Why when some of us want to draw a line in the sand on what is "Real Country" we get slammed and told we are narrow minded?
What's is wrong with preserving "Real Country"?
Steel, Fiddle, smokin chicken picken and Gene watson singin sad song is what is missing!
What happen to those killer steel rides in country that made you rush out buy it and go home to learn it?
"Todays Country" is only about a disco beat with the steel playing twinkles and the fiddle sawing two notes so they can call it country!!!
Nothing in Todays country touches deep inside you like you felt hearing Lloyd Green, Buddy Emmons, Tommy White etc play it on the radio! They played from and to the heart!! Where is it in the trash being played out of Nashville today?
Ok, i'll shut up!!! |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 7:20 pm
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Don't "shut up", some very good posts here that I agree with, some of you understood what I meant, the other asked and got great answers from the rest of you, yep, all ansewrs I agree with. 
Bobbe
However, I am too "old" to be accepted as a player in some circles where "looks" is more important than playing ability,  |
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Wally Taylor
From:
Hardin, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 9:10 pm
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Well Bobbe, you may not be purty, but you sure as hell know how to make purty music!! What I can't figure out is how you get all the good looking women!!
And you sure know how to throw a steel party! What a great day and what a great time we all had.
The subject of todays music and the days of the golden era for the steel was discussed by many at full length today by a lot of people. One of the most thought provoking comments that I heard, was that some of the Jackson steels, although they had a fantastic sound, were too "country" sounding for the music of today and probably could get little or no studio producers time. So, can it be that not only traditional country has been ushered out, but also the very heart and soul of what was once considered the mainstay country music sound of the steel?
Wally |
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Randal Smith
From:
Nashville, TN, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 11:00 pm
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I was down at Guitar Center the other day, got to looking at their bulletin board postings of musicians wanted, looking for work, etc. One that caught my eye stated the group was looking for a guitar player & bass player. Had to be in their 20's or 30's. Didn't say they needed to be able to play well, just needed "the look".
I wonder if they'd turn down Willie Nelson if he applied for the job?
_________________
Randal Smith alias Smitty the Kid
Nashville, TN
Simmons SD10
Warmoth Custom Guitar
Gibson GA-20 Amp
"We have enough youth, how about a Fountain of Smart?" |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 11:15 pm
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| Randal Smith wrote: |
I think what Bobbe's talking about are groups like Rascal Flatts, Lady Antebellum, Sugarland and artists like Taylor Swift, Miranda Lambert, etc. While I like some of the music, I wouldn't really call it country.
Lady Antebellum? What the hell kind of name is that for a country group? |
You may already know this. If so, I apologize. But, "Lady Antebellum," is a very southern name. Antebellum is a latin term used by intellectuals and during reconstruction former members of the southern aristocracy to refer to the good old days. In english, "Before the war." For the aforementioned southern aristocrats, there was only ONE war.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 11:21 pm
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If it makes y'all feel any better (and it probably doesn't) it isn't just country music that's affected. Any music that has any character to it (even bad character ) is considered, "Sappy." And so everything sounds blandly similar.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Kenny Martin
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Posted 4 Jan 2009 7:11 am
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Thanks guys! The last time i made a comment i was slammed by a picker from somewhere and was told that "Todays country" is selling out venues and that i didn't know what i was talking about!
I'm lucky that i play in a band that only does "Real Country" and two local bars that the owners will only allow it to be played in their clubs. No, not $50.00 per man a night but in fact we make anywhere from $250.00 to $350.00 a man! 7 piece band!
Anyways, i'm 49 and have played steel since 9 and i refuse to accept "Todays Country" When i was slammed i was told i probably didn't get to work much! Well, i'm one of two steel players in a 75 mile radius and my phone rings a good bit for studio and clubs.
I have started a company which will be on line in a few weeks that is dedicated to preserving "Real Country" So far i have over 2000 members ready to sign on!
I was ask by a 21 year old at a music store that heard me talking about it if there was enough old farts like me that would even care! Well, i didn't knock him out but ya know, there is more than enough adults wanting COUNTRY!!!
Everytime i'm playing somewhere i have a crowd of people watching me play (Not that i'm that good) but because they have never seen a steel live! They say that very thing!
I think that "Todays" crap music has its place but for ages between 6 and 21 not for adults!
My Daddy passed on April 4th this year but from the time i started playing until he passed he would always put a Lloyd Green album on and tell me "This is how you should always try to play like"
I know i will be slammed again but it is what it is too me!!
Thanks guys for the time!
km
www.myspace.com/krmsr |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 4 Jan 2009 9:23 am
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| Quote: |
| "Why when some of us want to draw a line in the sand on what is "Real Country" we get slammed and told we are narrow minded? |
Call it "classic country", "traditional country", or "honkytonk country", and probably nobody will argue with you.
The problem is that the term "country music" is just a marketing label, not a musicological definition. The marketeers and other people will call things whatever they want, and like it or not, we can't stop that. I think the best thing we can do is just give the classic stuff we prefer a distinguishing label and promote that separately.
Jazz had the same problem a long time ago, when successively swing, bebop, cool, hard bop, and more successive waves of jazz displaced each other and especially the earlier styles of pre-swing jazz. No problemo - just distinguish with the terms "traditional jazz" or "dixieland jazz", and blam - suddenly everybody understands. If they had continued spitting into the wind insisting that earlier styles were "the only true jazz", it would have gone nowhere.
OK, traditional styles of jazz are hardly the flavor of the month anymore. But they have preserved their identity and there is very unlikely to be further encroachment. They went their way, and the rest of the jazz world went theirs.
Somehow, blues has had an easier time of it. Instead of burying traditional blues, modern blues artists have brought them more to the front. But blues was never really a huge commercial style - it influenced commercial music styles heavily, but was never itself one. In a sense, country is a victim of its own commercial success.
Similarly, bluegrass established its identity, never worried about huge mainstream commercial success, and stuck to its guns. It spawned "newgrass", but there's a pretty clear distinction between it and its more traditional lineage. Bluegrass has an image of solid integrity that has continually attracted younger listeners since the 1960s, and as a result, is a commercially viable form now. Flavor of the month? Probably not, but definitely a solid player.
I sometimes work with players who, most of the time, play pre-bluegrass old-time music - Uncle Dave Macon, Dr. Humphrey Bates and the Possum Hunters, Fruit Jar Drinkers, Sam and Kirk McGee, Carter Family, and other early country music. With me, they add a lot of 50s and 60s honkytonk country music to the set lists. I was initially surprised, but that crowd has no trouble making the connection and embraces it. The old-time scene is alive and well in many places - certainly on many college campuses. OK, it will probably never be the flavor of the month either - but what do we care about - music or big money?
I think people who want to promote traditional country music of all stripes need to change their strategy and stop trying to fight the commercial country world. They got the guns, they got the money. If we just don't worry about Sugarland, Antebellum, Rascal Flatts, and so on, and just do our own thing, we can put as much steel guitar in as we want and promote it to whoever will listen. Better than spitting into the wind, anyway. 
Just MHO, of course. |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 4 Jan 2009 9:43 am
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Amen and halleluyah, brother Mudgett!!
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Kenny Martin
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Posted 4 Jan 2009 11:04 am
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Well thanks Dave on the history of how music has progressed over the years! You should teach music history! I really need to get out of the bubble i've been in the past 40 years i've played steel! Sorry!
Hey, i'm truly aware of change because its one thing that is constant in this world!
Just me, but just because chicken salad and chicken crap come from the same place doesn't mean that you can eat both of them!
I will remain narrow minded and call "REAL COUNTRY" which is ofcourse an opinion and everybody has one.
km |
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Hal Higgins
From:
Denham Springs, LA
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Posted 4 Jan 2009 11:21 am
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I'm in total agreement here, as well. The "country/country rock bands that I've been associated/played with in the last few years...really like what I do when it comes to the style.....I am usually the "oldest" one in the band too. They have, for the most part, shown me a good bit of respect for my years of playing. Pickers....you must keep an open mind about maybe a little change in your approach to what and how to play with todays younger musicians. For the most part.....I still play the traditional country licks, etc....on even what's deemed as "new country" material....but I'm also open to adding a little distortion, chorus....organ effects if it's warranted. I've not been told that I'm too old looking to pick with these guys either.....I'm gray/white headed.....I'm 5'8" and 200+ lbs. I wear my hair spike style.......I get compliments on how I look for my age. This is my take..IMO.
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HAL...Excel D-10 w/ 8 & 5. SteelSeat.com w/back,SteelSeat.com Pedal Board on Legs with Quilter Tone Block 200 amp, Boss GE 7, Boss DD 3, Boss RV 6, Boss RT-20 Hilton Expression Pedal, Evans Cabinet with 4 ohm Eminence 15" speaker. BJS birthstone bar, Powder coated Tone bar by Michael Hillman. Dunlop Coated finger picks and Zookies L30 thumb picks. |
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Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Jan 2009 1:13 pm
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Kenny, I agree with you. I too, am a traditional country music picker and do sing. Also, I pick and sing traditional bluegrass. I have no use for the new country, or the new bluegrass. Let me know about your site you are setting up. I just don't play, or listen to the noise that is being pushed at us. So what if we are old, and bald. It is the sound that counts.
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Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Jan 2009 2:50 pm Re:
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IMHO the old music be it country or pop told a story.The songs put out now do not have to do that because you woulden't be able to hear them over the drums any ways.
What is now called a singer has to scream into a mike like the old Tarzen yell.I like the old Tarzen movies,but it was not called music until recently. |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 4 Jan 2009 8:49 pm
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When is music country?
When you can't call it anything else. |
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Allen Kentfield
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2009 10:08 am Young Country
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When I started noticing pedal steel players in the 60's, they were usually the oldest guy in the band. It takes time to develop technique. Now that PlayStation 3 is out, what young person would be willing to dedicate themselve to that much self-motivated WORK, even if there are tens of dollars to be made? A quicker way to be a PopStar: learn Keith Richards' intro to "Brown Sugar". That should get you through about 350 current country songs. Get a blonde girl to squeal during the intro, then go lease your tour bus.
Al Kentfield
Jonestown, Texas |
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Ted Solesky
From:
Mineral Wells, Texas, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2009 10:38 am
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| Lloyd describe it as, 'when you take away all the hype, big, production, you have nothing left. No basis. Another words you can't really get your teeth into it from my own experience. I prostituted myself for a while and did it and didn't like it. I felt my pickin and grinnin going backwards. Tommy, when he was with the Whites did some hair raising rides, traditional stuff in the ol country. Paul and Emmons did great stuff with ol George Strait and Paul with Allen. Emmons did classic rides in Ray Price material that are being played today. As far as the new stuff, in 2/3 months, the songs fall off the face of the earth. You never hear them again. Just 4 months ago, while I was setting up I heard a Hank Williams Sr song. How old is that? Any of this new country will survive that long? Don't get me wrong, I listen to it all. If it's good, I listen. Ted |
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Scott Hiestand
From:
MA, U.S.A
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Posted 5 Jan 2009 12:27 pm
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As another "Traditional Country" lover who loathes most of what comes out of Nashville, I think we need to keep this in mind: By and large, "New Country" is aimed at younger audiences, at least younger than what is probably the average age of a forum member here! It isn't just the music and "looks" marketing, it's the lyrics too. Hello to Ford trucks and tight jeans, good-bye to divorce, hard drinking and heartache. "Kids" can't relate to those things because they simply haven't experienced them yet. When I was much younger, my mom listened to Merle, Hank Snow, Eddie Arnold, Jim Reeves, etc. I hated it all. Now, 30 years later I play steel (well, that's debatable!) and love the old greats.
My point is, life experience changes a lot so I really am not all that worried "Traditional Country" is a dying horse. Sure, there is a smaller market for it, but it is there. And as people change and mature, what they once thought of as "corny", "old-fashioned" or "stupid" may suddenly touch their heart, musically or lyrically or both, in a very real way. They laugh at me now, but I can't wait for the day my daughters start listening to George Jones - I betcha it happens! |
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Ken Mizell
From:
Lakeland, Florida, 33809, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2009 8:55 pm
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I wonder how many people go around humming or whistling a country tune these days? Think about it. It's my observation that there is hardly no melody at all to this new country crap. I think of it as rock music with a southern accent.
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Steeless. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 1:39 am
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| Quote: |
| Just me, but just because chicken salad and chicken crap come from the same place doesn't mean that you can eat both of them! |
Chicken salad and chicken crap don't come from the same place.
But if you're arguing that new country (and the rock and blues that many people seem to love to slam willy nilly around here) is all chicken crap and that old country is all chicken salad, I respectfully disagree. Every style has good stuff and crap. Remember how this thread started?
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| Perhaps I haven't heard a lot this so-called "New Country", but I hear a lot of high quality steel (and guitar and fiddle) on songs from the likes of Brad Paisley, Josh Turner, Daryle Singletary, etc. Is this New Country? ... |
I agree - there is some fine music in New Country.
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| I wonder how many people go around humming or whistling a country tune these days? Think about it. It's my observation that there is hardly no melody at all to this new country crap. I think of it as rock music with a southern accent. |
Are you sure that all rock music is crap and nobody can whistle a rock tune? I don't agree.
Too many stereotypes here. There's good and bad music in all formats. I agree there's a lot of garbage on the radio these days. But this isn't about rock vs. country, but the people who control the media. Playlists are force-fed by corporate media conglomerates to local stations, regardless of what anybody wants to hear. Everybody single person I have known who worked in radio the last 30 years is now out - the last holdout left a year ago when the corporate raiders came in and took over the station and replaced DJs with drones. Until that landscape changes, discussions about popular music are like spitting into the wind.
My opinions, of course. |
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