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Topic: C6 back neck |
Jack Mattison
From:
North Bend, Wa
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 10:29 am |
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I have just started learning and playing on my c6th neck. I am having some diffaculty with positioning of my feet. Trying to use my left foot on 5&6 pedals means my lkl and lkr are in the way. I can get my lkr out of the way, or should I use my right foot to work the 5&6 pedals???? I am not useing a volume pedal at this time, so I could use my right foot, but would that be proper???????. Looking for any help.............. Thanks......... Jack<><
_________________
Little Round Mound of Sound. D-10 8/5 ShoBud "The Professional" Pevey NV400. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 12:49 pm
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| If you are playing a D10, move your left leg out from between the lefet knee levers and move it over to the C6th pedals. Most players I know keep their left foot around pedals 5 & 6. |
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Jay Jessup
From:
Charlottesville, VA, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 1:03 pm
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| Yes, what Richard said about getting your knee out from between the left levers as generally speaking you should use your left foot for all the C6 pedals as that will leave your right foot free for the volume pedal once you get into using one of those. As in almost all cases with the steel there is nothing that is true 100% of the time so as you advance you will find there are times when your right foot may need jump over and hit the 7'th or 8 pedals when the left foot can't get there in time. |
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Roger Shackelton
From:
MINNESOTA (deceased)
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 1:51 pm Why Do You Need A Back Neck?
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HI JACK,
The best way to avoid this situation is to paly a
S-12U PSG. 
ROGER |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 2:39 pm
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It's best to get use to moving your leg over with the knees left as they are. Most times, at least one knee on the right is used with C6, and at times both feet are required on the C6 neck. That's only using the minimal C6 The main reason for having a volume pedal that will STAY where you want it for that very reason. So get use to moving over and still maintain the leg between the levers.
Don |
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Jay Jessup
From:
Charlottesville, VA, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 4:51 pm
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Roger,
It sounds like Jack is just getting started on the steel so if he's already got a D-10 it's probably best not to confuse the issue trying to lobby for your favorite approach.
Don, either I don't understand what your advice is or you are seriously kidding? I can't think of anyone I have ever seen play C6 with the left knee still between the E9 knee levers. These days it is not unusual to have a separate set of left knee levers for the C6 neck. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 6:11 pm
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| What Jay said. I play a uni myself, and it is still an issue on uni. Losing pedal 4 and putting pedal 6 on a lever, does make it possible to reach the three remaining 6th neck pedals without moving from the E9 knee levers. But uni players who want to specialize more on the 6th neck mode put a center knee lever cluster over the 6th pedals and move their leg over. On D10 seems like everybody moves their leg over to play C6, whether they have a center lever cluster or not. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 6:31 pm
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Jay, Perhaps, you can show me where it was I said the LEFT leg? I think I said the RIGHT leg, unless I wrote it wrong?
Maybe I should go check what I wrote first though. I think you mistook when I said: With the knees left as they are.
| Quote: |
| Most times, at least one knee on the right is used with C6, and at times both feet are required on the C6 neck. That's only using the minimal C6 The main reason for having a volume pedal that will STAY where you want it for that very reason. |
Don |
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Jay Jessup
From:
Charlottesville, VA, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 6:50 pm
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Don,
I figured I didn't understand what you said! Jack was talking about his left leg in his original post and I thought your advice to leave the knees where they were meant to leave the left leg in the E9 knees----musta been that second glass of wine I had after dinner!! Sorry bout dat!! |
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Jack Mattison
From:
North Bend, Wa
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 6:54 pm back neck
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Thanks guys for all the in-put. Yes I do play a D10, so will take all this good info and put it too use. I will make it fit to where I am comfordebal. I know I am having fun playing on the c6 neck. So thanks again................ Jack<><
_________________
Little Round Mound of Sound. D-10 8/5 ShoBud "The Professional" Pevey NV400. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 7:17 pm
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Jay, no problem at all. Besides, most of the time, my writing doesn't equate too well, to what I'm saying.. 
Jack, just a little thought to say: You might want to start working with the volume pedal in place as soon as possible.
It's also important that you have a volume pedal that WILL stay at the level you place it at without your foot being on it, while playing C6 neck.
Everyone have a great New Year.
Don & Family |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2009 9:27 am Should one keep their left knee in the E9th on C6?
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In other words, should a player keep their left knee in the cluster of E9th knee levers even when playing the "C" neck?
I would give a resounding "NO"!
But then that is me. I remember distinctly seeing Herbie Wallace STAY in the E9th cluster while tearing up those pedals that are used exclusively when playing the C6th neck.
But outside that, I do not recall a single other player doing it. Herbie is a pioneer. He KNOWS more about Pedal Steel than most PSG players. He KNOWS what each pedal and knee lever does and he KNOWS when and when not to use them.
But still I have never seen anyone but Herbie (a dear friend) keep their left knee in the E9th cluster while playing C6th, and I do not recommend it for new players.
Stan Musial had the most un-natural batting stance of any player I ever saw. It has been written about by scores of writers. But Stan said, "This is the way I learned it and it is comfortable to me, but I would never recommend it for anyone learning to play baseball".
Vladimir Horowitz is considered by more than just a few piano critics to be the greatest pianist who ever or will ever live. Yet he had a "No-No" way of curling his right hand little finger up when not using that finger to play a note. Only to uncurl it when he did play a note with it, and just as fast recurl it when he had finished playing the note(s). And so on.
But those same music critics insisted that it should not be emulated for beginning piano players.
Same reason I say "NO" above for C6 playing. For it is cumbersome; and it does not allow for a cluster dedicated for C6th, as more and more players are going to.
A number of D-10 players are opting for 3 left knee knee levers on C6th. Some have even added a "staggerd" knee lever, providing 2 LKL's, as well as a vertical and LKR on C6th.
This had to come, and one day I believe, most will do it. We must keep in mind why lapsteel evolved to Pedal Steel. There are many changes that can NOT be achieved on the standard C6 neck unless one adds knee levers to it. The 2 on the right knee just don't cut it over time. We need more.
As the PSG delves further and further into the realm of musical resolve, certain changes simply require that C6 be JUST as flexible as E9th. Thus why 3 pedals and 1 knee lever did NOT remain standard on E9th.
You can learn to shift your knee in and out of the E9th cluster as fast as you can change the neck PU switch.
Or that is my take on it. Others will disagree.
You can learn more about this, by getting a copy of "The Evolution of the Pedal Steel Guitar".
May Jesus make this your best year ever. And may He bless you all always,
carl
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 4 Jan 2009 7:35 pm Re:
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| Think i missed something also.My self and every other steeler i knew who played a D10 had the knee levers working both necks. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 5 Jan 2009 11:44 am
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Tracy, I think I, must have missed something too.. Maybe it's because we were all "such none players" (PUN INTENDED) that we didn't know we couldn't use our knees and feet at the same time, (without our knee levers being moved over). Too funny! 
Everyone have a great New Year.
Don |
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Roger Edgington
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 8:40 am
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| I think it depends a little on the position of the knee levers on the guitar and the length of the players legs. I play a D10 and with my short legs I couldn't possibly play C6 without moving my left leg out of the E 9th cluster. It's just a small body shift for me. My two right knee levers work both necks as does my fourth pedal. I ordered two more knee levers to be used as a left leg pocket for the C6 but haven't installed them yet. OK. So I've had them a few years now. It seems like I work on every bodys guitar but mine. That would give me 5 knee for E9 and 4 for the C neck. Steels are very personalized but that's one of the things I enjoy about them. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 9:19 am
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Right you are Roger! It comes down to a personal choice.
Hey! Take some time to yourself, and put those other knee levers on there. Now you're sounding like me. Always enough time for others but never enough time to get to my own stuff.
Make this the New Year, that you'll get it done, that'll be my New Year's Wish for ya.  Don |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 10:24 am
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| Quote: |
| Think i missed something also. My self and every other steeler i knew who played a D10 had the knee levers working both necks. |
It is true; On the right knee, most ALL D-10's have the right knee levers working both necks. In fact I can't recall but a few cases where this was not so, at least for one of them.
However, I know of few cases out there, where the left knee "knee levers" work both necks. What we are talking about is whether one should keep their left knee in the "E9th" cluster while playing on the C6 neck, or do what most players do and that is move their left knee outside the cluster, while playing the back neck, and then just as quickly move the knee back into the cluster when playing the E9th neck.
The standard D-10 setup on ALL new PSG's from the factory has the following:
RKL works both necks
RKR works both necks
LKR works only E9th
LKV works only E9th
LKR works only E9th
A few steels have other knee levers and a very few have one or more or the above working the C neck.
Again, with only one exception (Herby Wallace) I have never seen a single player not move their left knee out of the E9th cluster when playing the back neck. Of course there may be some. I just don't recall it.
carl
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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Roger Edgington
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 11:29 am
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| Carl, If I don't move my leg out of the E9 cluster, I could not get pedals 6 and 7 down together and probably couldn't even reach pedal 8. |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 2:19 pm
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| Quote: |
| If I don't move my leg out of the E9 cluster, I could not get pedals 6 and 7 down together and probably couldn't even reach pedal 8 |
My point precisely Roger. How Herby does it is beyond me! But he does.
carl
_________________
A broken heart + † = a new heart. |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2009 3:21 pm Knee levers:
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| Don Brown, Sr. wrote: |
Tracy, I think I, must have missed something too.. Maybe it's because we were all "such none players" (PUN INTENDED) that we didn't know we couldn't use our knees and feet at the same time, (without our knee levers being moved over). Too funny!
Everyone have a great New Year.
Don |
Don i played for a living for over 50 years before retiring and still don't know any thing except it was before the internet telling us what we coulden't do.
I am being a little fictious here but it's the truth.As i mentioned once before,the band hid my bar on a break and i didn't say a word.Just got an empty beer bottle and kept picking.
Really i think (IMOP) worring what can and can't be done on the steel slows the learning process down to many now days.
Forget how any one else does it or what brand of steel they use and just pick the thing.You would be suprissd how much us OTs learned licks,etc by accident and getting help from advanced steelers who did it thier way also,lol/Tracy
BTW.Bak when i played D 10s all 4 of my knee levers worked both necks.But you have to consider most of us OTs did our own pedal set ups and didn't try to copy any one.
But of course like some others back then we did steel some Curly Chalkers stuff. But when he got through with a song there was nothing left to play.
And while i am on a roll the ones of us who did that were only coping him.There was only one Chalker. |
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