Scales and Chords for eight string tunings

[Matt Campbell]

Is there a thread, or link, where one can visualy see scales and/or chords on various eight string tunings? Just purchased a new 8 string lap, and I need to visualy see these scales first, verses tuning to million different tunings and spinning my head. Im looking for a tuning that I can play triads up and down a scale, plus get minors,Dim,and 7ths, Is there such a tuning? Been playing guitar and 5st banjo for so long, its hard for me change tunings, but want to expand ....Any help apreciated...thank you Matt

[Brad Bechtel]

http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/Chord_Finder.asp

[Lynn Oliver]

A couple of references to get you started:
Tunings for Lap Steel
A Different Slant (Leavitt Tuning)

And of course the ultimate reference, Brad's Page of Steel, from our own Brad Bechtel.

[Matt Campbell]

Thanks to both of you....fantastic!

Thats good usefull info.

I've started off with low to high
Bb-C#-A-C-E-G-B-D....kind of a C6/G dobro cross. You can get your 1,4,5 chords all within two frets. Then with the dim (C#) and 7th (Bb) on the bottom....Then the minor EGB is there as well. I really like it, mostly because I understand it. The downer is your limited to 3 to 4 strings in one area to choose from. BUT Im smart enough to know that if it was so great, everyone would already be using it...haha So, Im looking for something else....

[Denny Turner]

Matt:

The enchilada:
http://www.steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/003549.html

Indexed:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/002238.html

Sorry I don't have the time to comment much; Trying "desperately" to hustle some Christmas for my kids; Plenty of comments in the thread though, ...addressing each item of interest you mentioned.

But the very basis of that long discussion is the "magic" relative sequence for scales, chords, fret-pocket / boxes, and substitution thinking by which we can easily navigate Steel, is:
IM7 = IIm7 = IIIm7b9 = IVM7(#4) = V7 = VIm7b6 = VIIm7b5b6b9 (aka half dim. or harmonic dim.) .....transposable to any root note / tonic or any other way you want to look at a transposition. Each of those chords and scale qualites all have the very same notes and so are thus located on the same 2-fret pockets / boxes on the Steel fretbaord. Pretty cool when we look at the nature of the triads therein (or a partial thereof) which is all that is required to set a root, tone or harmony in the sequence ...and even if an extension note in the pockets / bloxes are played, they CANNOT be incorrect if you're in the right pocket / box, because they're all stacked up on each box's fret in a correct harmony step sequence for each of the 7 chord and scale qualities therein.

But since we commonly use the 6th chord of the 6th tuning to orient & navigate where we're at on the 6th tuned Steel, even though every 6th chord on the neck is co-located with a Dom7 scale and not a M7 scale, such as G6's co-located scale being G7 scale's extension notes located on the F6 fret; It's thus better seen as:
I7 = IIm7b6 = IIImb5b6b9 = IVM7 = Vm7 = VIm7b9 = VIIM7(#4) ....all located on the same 2 frets pocket / box, ...again where CM7 scale would be located on the G6 and F6 frets that form the G7 pocket / box.

In any case CM7 scale notes and thus chords too, are found at the G7 scale frets pocket / box located at the G6 (and F6) chord positions. Cm7 would be up at the 3rd and 5th frets because the M7 in that box AND for the abovesaid sequence would be BbM7 = Cm7 = Dm7b6b9 = EbM7(#4) = F7 = Gm7b6 = Am7b5b6b9, ....again easier seen as F7 (Eb6) = Gm7b6 = Am7b5b6b9 = BbM7 = Cm7 = Dm7b6b9 = EbM7(#4) = ....and again all of those scales have identical notes and are all located in the same box at the Eb6 and F6 frets. A signature minor partial chord sits in the downscale fret of every minor box chosen (Cm7 partial chord is at Eb6 while the remaining notes of Cm7 scale are at the F6 fret), while a signature Major partial chord sits on the upscale fret of a chosen Maj box (a partial of CM7 is on the G6 fret while the remaining notes of CM7 and G7 are on the F6 fret .......and in that box is CM7, Dm7, Em7b9, FM, G, Am7b6, Bm7b5b6b9 .....bringing us right back to see / know the sequence again, and that it works in all transpositions.

And that relative sequence (aka modes) is xactly why the chord change IM7 (or IIm7) > VIm7 > IIm7 (or IV) > V7 all fit so beautifully over a IM7 melody (or any root melody in the sequence since they would merely be harmonies of their root in the sequence) ...so common in old Do-Wop ...even in the song 'Sleepwalk' (with different voicing substitutions of the same relative sequence).

In the bridge of 'Sleepwalk', played in the key of C for easy visualization: When the IV Chord (F) goes to IVm (Fm) we simply move the bar up 3 frets where IVm7 / Fm7 coexists with all the other 7 RELATIVE scales of the sequence ...which is easy to analyze since that IVm chord is at the downscale end of the box making the box at Ab6 and Bb6 frets; And using the sequence easiest for our intuitive 6th chord navigation we find the chords and scales qualities in that box to be I7 / Bb7 = IIm7b6 / Cm7b6 = IIIm7b5b6b9 / Dm7b5b6b9 = IVM7 / EbM7 = Vm7 / Fm7 = VIm7b9 / Gm7b9 = VIIM7(#4) / AM7(#4).

A nominal amount of woodshedding with a Steel and with pencil and paper will turn the barn light on pretty quick, followed pretty close by the doors swung open.

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Sorry for any typos; No time to edit much; Pretty challenging times around the "farm" here.

[Matt Campbell]

WOW!!!, thanks for the help, mighty nice of you, but unfortunately I'm not smart enough to absorb that at all. My theory knolwedge is just enough to be dangerous, but that is way over my head. Maybe there will be a day I will understand.

So, is the tuning I mentioned, a usefull tuning, or is it not? I'm just looking for something I can relate to, and move on with.

[Denny Turner]

Matt,

I think if you read the SGF thread I linked to, you will find that a number of the Fo'Bro's thought it looked difficult at first too, ....but in a quite nominal amount of time the light came on, ...and allot of guys joined the discussions and provided their views and perspectives of what it provided them. The 6th tuning and that method of navigating it provides exactly what you asked for; Just a method of putting the bar where it will get the chords and scales you want. You need not take the broader chords / scales and theory any more than you desire; It works just as well in simple triads / chords and scales too.

You'll also find your banjer triad sitting right there in that 6th tuning as well; Just skipe the 6th tuned string when desired and used it when desired; I think it will fall right into place for you.

I made the index to separate the different levels of theory knowlege so that anyone can access the postings that fit the level they desire.

Give it a try.

[Matt Campbell]

Thanks alot Denny, I'll try to understand it. Your stretching this "banjer hillbilly's" bald headed brain you know? but that's what I ask for, wasn't it? !!

[George Piburn]

edit

[Matt Campbell]

Hello from GeorgeBoards

Whar Area of Oklahoma are you ??

We are Located off Route 66 East of Edmond,

Denny is a great friend -- GeorgeBoards Teaches his methods and our DVDs are a Feature on the SGForums sale of Lap Instructions.

Click Instructions at the top of the page and go to the Lap Steel Instructions to purchase through the Forum.

http://pedalsteelmusic.com/instruction/ ... .html#v016

I can give one on one personal instruction too.

George MR.Boards

Well...Goerge its a honor, we're practicaly neighbors....Who would have thought I was so close to GeorgeBoards !!....Im right up here just north of Bartlesville. Im pretty unteachable at 50 haha right now that scale and chord generator from Brad is fitting the bill. But now I have a good excuse to come see your merchandise for sure...!!

[Jerry Tillman]

Matt or anybody else reading the stuff Denny puts up,take a little bit at a time and it will really make sense and help your playing a lot.Also don,t forget music is not very complicated,it either stays where its at or goes up or down,how good you sound depends on how well you do that. thanks lakeshrk

[Matt Campbell]

Yes its great information for sure, and this is a great forum where people are willing to share......Hopefully after the holidays, I can dive in even deeper and explore....Thanks alot