Bose p.a.

Ken Anderson · Post by **Ken Anderson** » 2 Dec 2008 7:40 am

My band is looking into going with the bose towers for our p.a. system.Does anybody have any experience with these?
I'm trying to minimize my p.a. setup time and get a better sound in geneneral
Has anyone ran a steel directly through this set up with a tubefex or a pod?

thanks
Ken

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 2 Dec 2008 8:26 am

I'm looking for the same info, they look like the way ahead...

Chuck Snider · Post by **Chuck Snider** » 2 Dec 2008 10:41 am

I attended a jam in August held by MASGA (Mid-Atlantic Steel Guitar Assoc.) and they were using a complete Bose PA system. I could not give you model numbers and such, but it was an awesome sounding system. That was held in a pretty large Moose Lodge building, and it more than filled the place with sound. It sounded great and was relatively small in size for all the stuff they had.

The system was owned by one of the MASGA members named Kevin Robbins. He is a great guy and can be reached at kevin@revelationministries.net or phone number 336-859-4045. Also check their website www.revelationministries.net

-Chuck

Chuck Snider · Post by **Chuck Snider** » 2 Dec 2008 10:47 am

Sorry, just noticed you were asking whether anyone had run a psg thru one of those.

As far as I can recall, no one at the jam ran their psg thru the system, but I could be mistaken. Although I think the house band did though. To be sure though you might check with Kevin, I'm sure he can share his experiences with the system.

From talking with him about it during the jam, he was very happy with how the system performed.

-Chuck

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 3 Dec 2008 6:25 pm

I was seriously interested in the Bose towers about a year ago and did a lot of research on them, including talking to Bose direct. A local DJ guy had two of them and was working an outdoor festival. I was very impressed that they indeed had pretty much the same volume on stage as at a distance. They also sounded awesome and were not prone to feedback at all. Here was the problem, though. You have a problem if you mix the towers with normal amplifers. At the back of the room, the Bose will have the same volume as up close and on stage but your amp will not. To be heard in the back of the room at the same level as the Bose, you will have to crank up your amp's volume, then, it will be too loud on stage and up close. Trying to get the Bose and instrument amps volume balanced thoughout the room is next to impossible. Everything has to be run through the Bose and the volume kept low on stage. If I remember right, the power head on the Bose is only 4 channels. You could probably bypass the speaker in your amp and go direct out ot the back of the amp to maintain most of your amp sound. For some applications, it would be a wonderful system but just beware of the problem of mixing them with normal amplifers.

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 3 Dec 2008 7:39 pm

A few years back, after our first sessions in a recording studio, I realized that I needed to upgrade our live sound. At the time were were using a compact system consisting primarily of a Mackie powered mixer (808M) and Mackie speakers (C300i).

I looked at the Bose system, and during that same period my band played a couple of venues that used a Bose system: two towers and two subs along with an external mixer (Yamaha). My experience was that the sound on stage was very poor, and there were complaints from the audience that they couldn't hear us very well. We also had problems with feedback, so it's not surprising that the house sound was poor.

My understanding is that Bose intends each performer to have a tower, which would probably improve the on-stage sound. However, that can add up to a lot of money.

I went with something else that has worked very well for us.

More recently one member of my band has been running an open mic in a venue that has the same Bose setup, so I've been helping try to get the most out of the system. While we've mostly been able to get adequate FOH sound (for the audience), feedback is an issue with the Bose system. On-stage sound is an issue.

The system does not have the headroom to handle electric guitar well at even moderate volume. After playing with it a while, I'd hesitate to use it at any venue where there was more than 75 to 100 people, or if there was an ambient noise problem, or if any of the instruments other than bass or piano are plugged in.

I could go on, but there's no need. I don't happen to agree with the earlier posts, so I wanted to get the contrary view out there.

Jim Park · Post by **Jim Park** » 4 Dec 2008 9:36 am

My Band is going through the same issues trying to improve FOH (front of house)quality and volume and we decided to go with In-Ear monitors. This has proved very good. we use the aux sends to a headphone amp to mix each band members personal taste in blend and volume and the main board for FOH. We have a Mackie 1640 Onyx board. I would like to have the Aviom system (In my dreams)the next best thing would be to use the DB-25 output and daisy chain it to each individual player like the Aviom but wired and analog istead of digital maybe John Macy can shed some light on this idea

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 4 Dec 2008 4:22 pm

Jim, what in-ears are you using? We started down that path but the cost of the individual body packs and 'phones was just too high.

Jim Park · Post by **Jim Park** » 5 Dec 2008 7:29 am

Lynn, I'm using M-Audio IE10's and we are using a Behringer HA 8000 headphone amp in the rack, and we just run more wires. I discovered as you did the cost of personal units.

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 9 Dec 2008 9:57 am

Maybe the feedback problem arises when using a mixer and sending a mic to more than one tower. That will create "hot" and "dead" spots, resulting in feedback.

If each mic is panned to the right or left, that would eliminate that problem.

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 9 Dec 2008 10:40 am

I'm sure that sending a mic to only one speaker would reduce some feedback problems, all else being equal. However, then you are trying to cover the entire room with the single speaker that is closest (required for monitoring) to the mic, and that just makes the feedback situation worse than before.

There's no getting around the problem of having the speakers behind and more or less pointed at the mics. With a conventional system the monitors are directed at the notch in the pickup pattern, and the stage can be EQ'd without affecting the FOH mix.

John Cook · Post by **John Cook** » 11 Dec 2008 12:21 am

The Bose L1 model II system is an incredible piece of technology when used in it's proper context. It was never designed to amplify an entire band, it is a personal amplification system. When coupled with the four channel tone engine it is just great for an acoustic guitar and vocal with percussion and another vocal mic or bass with an added bass module. The results are far superior to anything else on the market. You just have to use it for what it was designed for. In other words, don't try to put 5 lbs. of baloney in a 3 lb. bag. jc

Walt Miller · Post by **Walt Miller** » 15 Dec 2008 3:45 pm

I use a pair of Bose 802 speakers with a controller and a Mackie 808s and I have recieved so many compliments on the sound .The 802 speaker weight is 26 lbs.I mike a four piece band and vocals and it handles everything just fine.I bought the speakers and the controller used and also the mackie used for about 1200.00.My back doesn't hurt anymore.
Take Care
Walt

Ken Anderson wrote:My band is looking into going with the bose towers for our p.a. system.Does anybody have any experience with these?
I'm trying to minimize my p.a. setup time and get a better sound in geneneral
Has anyone ran a steel directly through this set up with a tubefex or a pod?

thanks
Ken

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 15 Dec 2008 10:16 pm

Am I right in presuming that when you say "The Bose Towers" you're referring to "These"
If so, I've tried them and they're NBG..for steel, but great for acoustic guitar and vocals..

Kevin Robbins · Post by **Kevin Robbins** » 16 Dec 2008 5:15 pm

The system used at the last MASGA jam is not the Bose PAS Tower. This is the system my group uses inside as well as outside events. The only part of the system that is Bose is the speakers and the digital contoller. The rest of the system consist of a Sound Craft board,Lexicon effects,3 QSC 2400w amps,compressors,EQs etc. None of the steels ran directly through the system. We always use a good steel amp and mic it to get the "bite" we like.
Hope this helps.

Ward Skinner · Post by **Ward Skinner** » 12 Dec 2010 10:51 am

This Friday & Saturday I played with a Canadian couple's band, their steel player had a mild heart attack and is out a few days. They used the Bose L-1 PA with subwoofer, a single tower.

They play a 4 piece, no drums, acoustic guitar, bass and steel. I was really impressed at the sound of the PA. I used a Peavey 112 and used the low gain input because the full input was clipping in their system. As a monitor it was great, not loud and could hear everything, very pleasant. My wife and son came out to listen Friday, they were impressed as well. They said what several others did, that the sound volume seems to be fairly even throughout the room, not loud close and good far back. And at the Elks last night, where you need to keep a low volume, it was a very enjoyable sound. I could even hear the constant ringing in my ears.

Another couple uses a similar system at a new Pappadeauxs restaurant here and it sounds great. I don't know how it would be with drums, but I sure am impressed with what it did this weekend.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 12 Dec 2010 11:21 am

We used one at this year's L.A. steel jam for the Band In Box tracks and occasional vocals. It sounded great. Everybody was impressed.

I hope we can get it again for next year's jam.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 12 Dec 2010 11:26 am

...and now for a few words from cranky Dave:

The above mentioned impression that the BOSE towers produce "the same volume at the back of the room as on stage" is a subjective judgement and an absolute physical impossibility, as the Inverse Square Law applies no matter how aggressively marketed or creatively constructed the transducer system may be.

Without the intense signal manipulation of the proprietary processors all BOSE gear sounds like doggy doo. This is not my opinion but what scientific measurement of the sensitivity, dispersion control and frequency response of this gear repeatedly demonstrates. When operated at higher SPL's there is no way to keep these rigs from throwing as much energy onto the stage and into the vocal mics as is delivered to the audience, i.e. they represent an unmanageable feedback risk.

If it is simplicity of setup and maximum performance for the dollar that you desire spend your money on some Yamaha SM12V wedges (for mains AND monitors) and for larger venues add a couple of EV Eliminator subs. Hook it all up to a pro quality amp and learn how to use the quality EQ you will also purchase to tune it.

As far as professional audio world is concerned, B.O.S.E. is an acronym for Bring Other sound Equipment. This being said, if it works for you and it's not just the sexy look you want then go for it.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 12 Dec 2010 11:31 am

basilh wrote:Am I right in presuming that when you say "The Bose Towers" you're referring to "These"
If so, I've tried them and they're *NBG..for steel, but great for acoustic guitar and vocals..

...*for those Americans amongst us, NBG means "No Bloody Good."

Ward Skinner · Post by **Ward Skinner** » 12 Dec 2010 12:08 pm

Cranky Dave, no argument from me. Before posting I did a search and found several negative opinions on the Bose system, including yours. Only thing I know is what I heard while playing. The other comments about the sound levels in different parts of the room were from others that were there. A matter of perception.

I know it's not possible to keep same volume levels around the room, and I also know that my Yamaha sound bar for my tv fools me all the time by making sounds appear to come from different parts of the room.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 12 Dec 2010 1:33 pm

I cannot recommend the Bose towers. I use them with my main band now, the bass player owns it. It is only one tower, but I also play an acoustic trio(CSNY)stuff, that uses 2 towers. The sound is never better than OK. Our usual system is 2 little JBL 4612 Cabarets. Only takes minutes to set up, is lightweight and sounds WAY better than the Bose stuff, and costs way less.We ussualy use a newer Yamaha powered mixer, weighs less than 10 ls, costs $550. The speakers were 600, used of course, but the Bose single stick will not keep up with any mid volume band, at least in my experience.Oh, but the Bose stuff is light!

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 12 Dec 2010 2:12 pm

You may want to consider the Bose 802 speakers. I have a set of these, as well as the original Bose 800's. They are easily moved around.
They sound really good, and amplify acoustic instruments very well.
Watch out for the Bose 802 series II which had a problem with the driver surrounds ( I know, I bought a pair and had to have them refoamed).
My 800's sound as good if not better than the newer 802's. I use a Mackie powered stereo mixer with them.
Also you will need the bose equalizer for them to sound as they should.
regards,
Lefty

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 12 Dec 2010 3:58 pm

...actually, any speaker with foam surrounds will eventually need repair, turns out the chemical compound used in the foam to keep them supple is absolutely delicious to dust mites!

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 12 Dec 2010 4:06 pm

Cloth surrounds on the 802 drivers solve that problem, but affect the sound quality a small bit. My ears can't really here the difference though.
Lefty

Steven Finley · Post by **Steven Finley** » 12 Dec 2010 6:58 pm

I have the big bose system with sub woofer and sound engine and yes, it is a bit pricey, but it works fine. Total weight: 40 lbs which is divided into three separate pieces and comes with carrying cases.

If you use this system in accordance with what it was designed for then it works extremely well. The Bose is about tone quality and not about raw power. Mixing other types of equipment or using it on outdoor gigs lowers its efficiencey.

I recently did a gig at a church; holds about 400 people. The female singer has an immaculate voice, uses an audio technica wireless and was well pleased. She stated it was one of the few PA systems that could actually keep up with her voice. The keyboard player loved it; great clarity. I love the ease of set up and weight. And, no feedback! which means no carrying a monitor system.

Back in the old days I too ran immense systems with 400 watts per channel, big speaker boxes with black widows or JBLs, etc. The one thing I have learned as I mature; I am the musician, I brought my instrument. If they want anything more than my Bose, they can hire a sound company. My back feels much better.

For those of you who know I also play with Tom Bovine, he runs a full (monster) PA, but only because most of his gigs are large outdoor venues which the Bose is not designed for. We did use the Bose one time for a small private indoor party. It handled it beautifully and Tom also loved the vocal clarity.

Here's a hint on getting the maximum out of the sound engine box (black box). If you are familiar with Cakewalk or Sonar recording software, the black box offers the same range of goodies and works similar. The directions that come with the black box are limited but if you spend about $10. and buy a short cut manual of Cakewalk you can get maximum results out of the Bose. The Cakewalk manual explains what each control device does for the tone or effect which you can then dial in on your black box.

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