A ring in 4th string

Jerry Eilander · From: Hadspen, Tasmania, Australia

I got a ring in my 4th string.
sort of harmonic, its anoing,
to fix it I have a little bit of paper under the string at the end of the PSG
but ofcours loose a little sustain,new strings dont fix it either, its a 86 model Psg ,is it worn out?
cheers from "down under"

Andy Sandoval · From: Bakersfield, California, USA

Hi Jerry, you might first try a little oil on the roller at the nut to see if that helps. If not, you might have a little grooving on the top of the finger caused by the string where it goes over the top of the finger. You can check it by loosening the string and slidin it over so you can inspect the top of the finger. If it's not smooth and shiny you have to polish out the groove or any imperfection. I take a very fine emory board that's pretty fine on one side and even finer on the other side and go over the top of the finger being careful not to wear a flat spot. I usually inspect the tops of the fingers every time I change strings and polish them if they need it.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Jerry, this was just discussed on another thread. My problem with a Shobud I used to own was the same, but on the third string. I cut a small piece of thin leather, just long enough to go from the string post (that the string ball-end attaches to) to the top of the strings knotted end. The bare string still touched the top of the finger, so no noticeable loss of sustain or tone. It was the string's "re-wrap" knotted end that was the cause of the problem!

David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

When changing strings, do you turn the nut rollers approximately a quarter turn before installing the new strings to ensure that the rollers wear evenly. If not, grooves may have developed in the rollers causing the overtones. The 4th being the thinnest would most likely be the first to develop the problem. Try loosening the string and turning the roller slightly to see if that helps to solve the problem.

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

Jerry, like John said, this has been/still is being discussed on another current thread titled "Emmons finger grooves." Check it out. It's a common problem.

Ron Wright · From: Modesto,CA

Jerry I too am having sorta the same problem.I have buffed the fingers (3 & 4), oiled, rolled, the rollers,changed strings(twice), I've called and talked to some of the main guys that are in the know Reece, Bobbe and Jim Palenscar,buzzing is somewhat better but still have an irritating ring more like harmonics ,I am changing the pickup next and although I have tried different amps and it's still there ,I have a new NV 112 on the way. Anyother help will appeciated .Ron
_________________
MSA S12 Classic XL 5/5
NV 112
NV400
Peavey Special 130
Ovation
Gibson 330
boss DD3,DS-1,TU-2,PS-2,Behringer rotary rm600
Goodrich 120,BoBro,RV2,Hilton Vp, Steeldriver3

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

I know just what you're talking about. I had that problem on an MSA and an Emmons Push/Pull. It's not quite as bad on my Mullen. It seems to have all but gone away, since switching to Jagwire strings. Right now, I have a set of Frenchy's "Steel Mill" Silent Wound Series strings on my guitar and there is no ringing.

With my guitars, the problem has never been with a groove on the top of the finger. In fact, the Mullen guitar has anodized fingers. There is no sign of a groove. The sound is more like a very high-pitched harmonic ringing out of control, usually from about the 8th fret up to about the 15th fret.

Ron Wright · From: Modesto,CA

exzactly ,,has to be something to correct it .. and it just started outa of the blue
_________________
MSA S12 Classic XL 5/5
NV 112
NV400
Peavey Special 130
Ovation
Gibson 330
boss DD3,DS-1,TU-2,PS-2,Behringer rotary rm600
Goodrich 120,BoBro,RV2,Hilton Vp, Steeldriver3

John Roche · From: England

That's why I stopped useing Jagwire strings, always the 4th string...

Ron Wright · From: Modesto,CA

I Tried jagwire ,,that's when it started , I've switched back to my prefered brand and it's still there .. also have a new tone bar on the way .. trying everything here
_________________
MSA S12 Classic XL 5/5
NV 112
NV400
Peavey Special 130
Ovation
Gibson 330
boss DD3,DS-1,TU-2,PS-2,Behringer rotary rm600
Goodrich 120,BoBro,RV2,Hilton Vp, Steeldriver3

Jerry Eilander · From: Hadspen, Tasmania, Australia

well, thank ye all,that gives me plenty to go on with
and yes I allso use jagwire strings,
and have a ring in both 3 and 4th strings,
I'll use al the above sugustions,and slowly work my way through,
thanks so much, good to hear that I have not a isolated probelem.
cheers all

richard burton · From: Britain

I use a thin strip of plastic, or sometimes a smear of grease.
I pluck the string, and if it dies immediately, I wipe a bit of the grease away.
I do this repeatedly until the string has enough sustain, and there is no whining/ringing apparent.

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

Regarding what I call "the sitar effect":

The problem isn't your roller nut, the bar, or the amp you use. The problem is because of one, all or a combination of some of these:

1) There is a worn groove in the finger causing the string to buzz.

2) The string is worn flat at the point it loops over the finger causing it to buzz.

3) The length of the rewind above the ball end causes a small portion of the rewind to sit on the rear edge of the finger. That means less string loops over the finger causing the string to buzz AND there is a larger string angle there that contributes to that likelihood. Take a look - you'll see it. Some strings do NOT have as lengthy a rewind, so that portion doesn't rest on the finger.

4) The tension of the string (the note) can be a contributing factor.

5) The diameter of the string....

6) Whether the string is wound or unwound........

All that being said, some steels have that incredibly annoying sitar buzz and some don't.

The easy fix is any of the suggestions that others have mentioned. That is, putting something under the string where it loops over the finger. I've also heard, but never tried, the suggestion to slip a short length of small gauge wire insulation over the string at the finger.

I'm not of the opinion that using a small piece of paper or leather will rob tone. However, I would pay attention to how thick the material you use is. Too thick could raise the string above the finger too much.

I am going to try the one suggestion to put a small piece of leather or paper behind the string right above the pin and below where it loops over the finger. That sounds interesting.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

The best solution is to buy a new steel guitar. Mr. Green

Hey, any excuse will do...
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Ron Wright · From: Modesto,CA

Good Idea Bob lol do you finance?
_________________
MSA S12 Classic XL 5/5
NV 112
NV400
Peavey Special 130
Ovation
Gibson 330
boss DD3,DS-1,TU-2,PS-2,Behringer rotary rm600
Goodrich 120,BoBro,RV2,Hilton Vp, Steeldriver3

Jonathan Shacklock · From: London, UK

Same problem, I've tried the plastic/paper strip, buffing and polishing fingers, replacing fingers with new ones, rotating rollers, changing strings, changing bars, oiling rollers, oil on finger/string, aquarium sealant on finger/string, wire insulation over string wraps. Still there.

I think there are two distinct types of ringing/buzzing that often get mistaken for each other on these threads. The "sitar effect" described by Eric and the "harmonic ringing" as described by Jerry, Lee and Ron. In many cases the causes overlap but I suspect that in a few cases the "harmonic ringing" is harder to get rid of as it is more to do with the overtones inherent in the individual guitar than any mechanical problem. The note will ring normally for the first second or so but as it sustains, a piercingly high overtone will quickly build up until it's as loud or louder than the fundamental.

Jerry my advice is don't drive yourself crazy trying to fix the problem, and don't do what I did and go so far as to replace the fingers with new ones. By all means try the above suggestions, one of them may do the trick, but you may have to accept a certain amount of ringing until you find a guitar that is free from the problem.

The two main things I found that reduce the unwanted noise are
1) use a good make of strings as mentioned above, and
2) pick the string at the sweet spot halfway between the bar and the changer - the ringing will be about half the volume.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Try a drop of heavy oil on the string where it goes over the changer and the nut. If it's a keyed steel, put a rag over the strings at the keyhead (to make sure it's not sympathetic ringing there). Sometimes, using a smaller bar (3/4"-7/8") will help the problem.

Most times though, it's caused by a bad string, a groove in the changer finger, or a flat-spot on top of the finger from over-polishing.

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