Morrell 8 string lap

Tim Kowalski · Post by **Tim Kowalski** » 8 Oct 2008 1:43 pm

I just ordered an 8 string lap steel from Morrell. I want to take it along when I travel for work to practice my blocking etc. and apply these skills to my pedal steel.
What tuning should I use? Would I need a certain string set to get certain tunings? Remember that I am trying to apply to PSG as much as possible. I have a D-10 with E9 and C6 necks, but haven't messed with the C6 yet.

After I ordered, I came across some bad reviews on the quality. I hope that I did not make a big mistake. It should arrive on Monday.

Your suggestions are appreciated.

Tim

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 8 Oct 2008 8:49 pm

I will chip in here - as I picked everyone's brain on this topic a few weeks ago ....

I had the same problem - E9 player wanting to pick up the lap steel to learn to play "on top of the guitar"

E7 is the closest tuning to E9 as far as actual notes open at the nut are concerned.

A6 is good as some of the intervals are the same as E9 with AB pedals down.

High C6 is good because it has the same intervals as A6, so you can use both A6 and C6 instructional material, and you can put special notes down low (like a Bb on the 8th to get a Junior Brown style C13)

Thats about as much as I have been able to work out - and having said that I haven't even got my first set of new strings or instruction material yet, so I don't know how good this advice is!

hope it helps anyway

James Harrison · Post by **James Harrison** » 8 Oct 2008 10:05 pm

On my 8 string lap steel, I use the standard E9 tuning minus the 1st and 2nd strings.

John Burton · Post by **John Burton** » 9 Oct 2008 5:44 am

On my 8 string I tune e13,(Don Helms tuning) which really has nothing to do with what you asked..BUT!
I have two Morrels, a Maple 6 string "pro" and an 8 stringer.
Now, I've been really tempted to send a few rulers/scales and maybe a set of calipers to those folks down in Bristol (where Morrels are made). To me, they'd have a real nice product if they only stepped up there quality assurance and maybe USED A RULER occasionally.
It ain't rocket science.

Now the good: My 6 string (after modding/replacing the nut and relocating the bridge a little, as the silkscreened frets are not placed right on this one.) sounds awesome. I really like that chunk 'o maple. The pickup is a good match. Really, despite a few 'lil problems, It's a nice steel. Again: the sound is there.

My eight string: The problem was that the pickup was misalligned on it so that the high eighth string was almost inaudible. I removed the pickup plate and drilled new screwholes to move the whole assembly over a bit. Now it's fine (the lowest string is not ideal, but otherwise it sounds good)
Overall, the sound, again, is pretty good on the 8 string. The intonation on this one is good to. (23 inch scale on these, which is nice!) The pickup is a single coil lipstick, and a little noisy, (Ground issue? Not really sure) But really not bad.

All in all, despite my ramblings, I actually like Morrels, after all they are American made, very nicely priced, functional and sound good. Soooo..if they need a 'lil tweaking to play right, welll..fine.

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 9 Oct 2008 6:13 am

I think you will like the Morrell just fine. If the first string or last string is slightly aligned off the "flat" part of the pickup, you will notice that that string is lower in volume that the rest.

Simply loosen the 4 screws holding down the bridge and shift it so the strings are centered over the lipstick pick up.

If there is not enough slop in the holes, you will have to file them into an oval slot in the direction needed.

I had to do this on mine, and it fixed the string balance.

Dom Franco

Tim Kowalski · Post by **Tim Kowalski** » 9 Oct 2008 7:27 am

Thanks everyone for the comments. Jeremy - the chart is excellent!
I feel much better concerning the purchase. I will have no problem if I need to work on intonation at the nut, bridge, or perform pickup alignment. Good to know that they have decent tone. I ordered the model with the Kent Armstrong Hot Rail pickup, so maybe it will not require alignment.

I appreciate the information.
Tim

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 9 Oct 2008 5:12 pm

edited chart for mistake in C13 (had a Bb marked as a B)

Added What I believe is the Don Helms E13. There appears to be more variation in the E13ths than in any of the other tunings.

There are at least two on Rick Alexander's chart

James Harrison · Post by **James Harrison** » 9 Oct 2008 7:50 pm

Don Helms used what he called E6.
Lo to Hi, A C# E G# B C# E G#.
He used B6 on the other neck.
James

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 9 Oct 2008 7:59 pm

curiouser and curiouser ....

John Burton · Post by **John Burton** » 10 Oct 2008 5:10 am

James Harrison wrote:Don Helms used what he called E6.
Lo to Hi, A C# E G# B C# E G#.
He used B6 on the other neck.
James

Interesting!
I allways thought it was: B, D, E, G#, B, C#, E, G#.
(Like the chart above).
That's what I've been using, anyway.
Are you sure about the low A and C#?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 Oct 2008 8:15 am

I have Don Helms "Your Cheating Heart" Steel Guitar Song Book w/tabs and tracks.
His tuning is the E13th and goes from hi to low as follows: G#, E, C#, B, G#, E, D and B.

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 10 Oct 2008 9:06 am

Erv - I *love* that tuning. Someone once told me that Speedy West used it too. Is the Don Helms book still in print?

John Burton · Post by **John Burton** » 10 Oct 2008 9:19 am

Tom Wolverton wrote:Erv - I *love* that tuning. Someone once told me that Speedy West used it too. Is the Don Helms book still in print?

To Further Hijack a thread:

The Don Helms book is great. I've been working through it for awhile trying to really nail the details. It's been my main "RoadMap" for learning steel. (Besides this forum, of course)

Another great book using THE SAME TUNING is "Memory Time" by Roy Wiggins. I haven't spent as much time with it as the Helms material, but it's wonderful for learning this tuning.

I also was under the impression that Speedy West often used the same tuning as Helms and Wiggins.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 Oct 2008 10:11 am

Tom,
I got the book from Scotty. In fact he did the preface in the book.
I haven't checked but he might still have it available.
When I was playing a T-8 Stringmaster I used a tuning very similiar to Don Helms. I called it
C#minor7th.
My 1st string wan an E and I didn't have the D on the bottom.
A rose by anyother name smells just as sweet.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 10 Oct 2008 10:39 am

According to Andy Volk's book on the subject of Lap steel guitar Don Helms E6 tuning was, from hi to lo G#-E-C#-B-G#-E-C#-A. And his second tuning was B11. I don't recall the actual notes of the B11. But it generally goes something like E-C#-A-F#-D#-B-G#-F#.

The Helms E6 is Bobbe Seymour's 8 string C6 tuning cranked up a major 3rd higher.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 Oct 2008 10:52 am

In the above referenced "Your Cheatin' Heart" book there is a Special Note!
"When Don was playing for Hank Williams, he tuned the 7th string to "C#" (gauge 038W)
and tuned the 8th string to "A" (gauge 042W). He called the tuning E6th. He used this tuning through his entire career with Hank and still uses it today when he plays the non pedal steel on shows."

James Harrison · Post by **James Harrison** » 10 Oct 2008 6:50 pm

A few months ago Don Helms told me he was still using his old E6 tuning on Ole Red. Ole Red was his name for his original Gibson Console Grande. Don is greatly missed by music lovers.
I also have a Morrell 8 string and have it tuned to Don's E6 when I play Hank Williams Sr songs. It saves me from Slants, which I am not good with.
James