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Topic: A tip about not lowering the 4th and 8th strings. |
Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 11:30 am |
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I have read where many new comers wonder how some steelers do what they do with out lowering the 4th and 8th strings.Holding the A&B pedals down then letting off and raising the 4th & 8th 1/2 tone with the knee lever and going down 4 frets does the same thing.
Thats my good deed for the day,or is it? 
Oh yeah.Pick the 4th 5th and 8th strings or any two of them. |
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Andy Hinton
From:
Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 4:39 pm without lowering 4 &8
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| Tracy; Most everyone who has the f lever does that, usually without thinking about it. Also use this & raise 5 & 10 move up 1 fret gives you a pretty 4 cord. good of you to post this tho for the newbies. Andy H. P./S. the F lever move ahead 4 frets gives a nice 7th lead in to open 4 cord also. |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 4:46 pm Re: without lowering 4 &8
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| Andy Hinton wrote: |
| Tracy; Most everyone who has the f lever does that, usually without thinking about it. Also use this & raise 5 & 10 move up 1 fret gives you a pretty 4 cord. good of you to post this tho for the newbies. Andy H. P./S. the F lever move ahead 4 frets gives a nice 7th lead in to open 4 cord also. |
Hi Andy.I only posted this because so many steelers wondered how LLoyd and many other steelers played what they did with out lowering the 4th and 8th.
Truth be told,about any lick can be found in many different positions and frets on different strings as i am sure you are aware of.Tracy |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 6:09 pm
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True, you can get the same 3 notes, but the effect is different - it just doesn't have the same timbre. In the same fashion, the "Together Again" move can be done without backing up the bar (by lowering the "B"), but it just sounds different.
Good for you for finding that one on your own, though. There's lots more - keep looking!  |
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Andy Hinton
From:
Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 6:39 pm Levers
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| Right on Tracy; Thats what this forum is all about. I'm not putin your post down, hoped to add a little to it. Wish someone had told me about the F lever 30 years aggo. Thanks for posting. Andy H. |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 7:26 pm
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Lloyd does lower his 8th, I'm almost positive of that.
There's a difference in the way the same passage will sound when played with either method. It may be subtle, but it's there.
I like having the option. |
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Brian Pelky
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 7:29 pm
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Hi Tracy. Pretty sure you meant 4th, 5th and 6th strings didn't you? That would give you 3 different tones for the triad, as opposed to octaves with one other pitch.
_________________
Sho-Bud Super Pro D10,Tele,Strat,Martin D-28,Korg Triton Pro,Nashville 400 |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2008 9:33 pm
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Lloyd did'nt lower his 4th string,Think he got that note on his 2nd,string.DYKBC.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 Oct 2008 4:27 am
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| Early on, he did lower the 4th. He omitted that change after having some tuning problems with it, as I understand. |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2008 10:21 am Re: Levers
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| Andy Hinton wrote: |
| Right on Tracy; Thats what this forum is all about. I'm not putin your post down, hoped to add a little to it. Wish someone had told me about the F lever 30 years aggo. Thanks for posting. Andy H. |
Andy as i recall and i may be a few years off,but i think it was LLoyd who first came up with the so called F lever in 1968.I was playing in Fla at the time and think it was Lloyd using it for the first time on a Tammy Wynett(sp?)record. |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2008 10:27 am Re:
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| Brian Pelky wrote: |
| Hi Tracy. Pretty sure you meant 4th, 5th and 6th strings didn't you? That would give you 3 different tones for the triad, as opposed to octaves with one other pitch. |
Brian.I admit i still get some what confsed on this.Lowering the strings depends on what you are playing.Not to take any thing away from P.F.but Jullian Tharp was lowering those strings 35 years ago.Now if i could only remember how to spell. |
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Joe Miraglia
From:
Jamestown N.Y.
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Posted 2 Oct 2008 10:31 am
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| Why didn't Lloyd just buy a new Pedal steel ? Joe |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2008 10:40 am Re:
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
True, you can get the same 3 notes, but the effect is different - it just doesn't have the same timbre. In the same fashion, the "Together Again" move can be done without backing up the bar (by lowering the "B"), but it just sounds different.
Good for you for finding that one on your own, though. There's lots more - keep looking! |
Donny,no bid deal but when Tom did Together Again the 4th was not raise 1/2 tone.But as i said B4 most licks and many chords can be found in many different places.
For instance one time back when i was in Ca.Tom still owned ZB.I took mine in to have something done to it of which i forget.The steel tech that worked for him tried to get me to have a pedal added to do some lick Tom did.He showed it to me and i showed him how to do the same thing only a different way with a different pedal.He laughed and said i'll be
darned.
As the old song goes I Did It My Way.And no ego intended.I have been at this for 50 years.LOL |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 Oct 2008 12:57 pm
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There is a HUGE difference in the way passages sound at different positons. Knowing where the redunant positions are available is a good thing, but knowing when to use them is yet another.
Loyd did what he did because he KNEW why he was doing it.
I will state what Doug J says about playing Steel guitars. Use the least amount of energy possible .
meaning, perhaps instead of seeking positions to accomplish the SAME thing, maybe the common sense approach is to use a lever to lower the strings in question.
by NOT Lowering 4 and 8 with a single lever reduces the amount of phrases and flexibility of playing on strings 8 and 5, 3 notes on the 8th string and 3 notes on the 5th string. ( Natural, Raise and Lower) The understanding of changes on those two strings in my view is very close to mandatory in my minimal opinion.
IF you decide NOT to lower 4 and 8, KNOW why you
are not and know what you may be missing.
my take, I'm an 8 + 5 kinda guy 
tp |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2008 2:10 pm Re:
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
There is a HUGE difference in the way passages sound at different positons. Knowing where the redunant positions are available is a good thing, but knowing when to use them is yet another.
Loyd did what he did because he KNEW why he was doing it.
I will state what Doug J says about playing Steel guitars. Use the least amount of energy possible .
meaning, perhaps instead of seeking positions to accomplish the SAME thing, maybe the common sense approach is to use a lever to lower the strings in question.
by NOT Lowering 4 and 8 with a single lever reduces the amount of phrases and flexibility of playing on strings 8 and 5, 3 notes on the 8th string and 3 notes on the 5th string. ( Natural, Raise and Lower) The understanding of changes on those two strings in my view is very close to mandatory in my minimal opinion.
IF you decide NOT to lower 4 and 8, KNOW why you
are not and know what you may be missing.
my take, I'm an 8 + 5 kinda guy
tp |
Hey Tony.Think you may have missed the point or didn't read my comments.As i said,when us older guys and gals started out we didn't have all these pedals and found lots of the stuff by accident.
Didn't have the teaching materials out now days.To make a point,add 10 or more pedals to your steel and try to play what Curly Chalker D.J.Jim Murphy,ect and many of the old timers did even before they had pedals. Tracy
Oh well.Nuff of this. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Oct 2008 4:17 am
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Tracey, I did understand the issue, and I come from the same school from a couple of decades back.
tp |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2008 11:50 am Tony.Re:
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
Tracey, I did understand the issue, and I come from the same school from a couple of decades back.
tp |
Hi Tony.Only 20 years playing?I didn't realize you were just a beginner.(only kidding).I really didn't intend for this subject to go this far.I only wanted to let the ones starting out know those same licks could be done with out lowering the 4th and 8th.
For instance.I only lower my 2nd string 1/2 tone and no raise.I used to use the double lower but discovered i could do the same thing with only the one 1/2 lower and using the 4th string.
I really believe the less clutter,the better.If we had only did things like some one else did, steel would never have advanced far as it has and we are not through yet.IMHO.
Boy did i pull a boo boo.I meant to say i lower my 2nd string 1/2 tone and no raise,But i said the 4th by mistake.
Last edited by Tracy Sheehan on 5 Oct 2008 10:38 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Max W. Thompson
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2008 1:49 pm
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| It is good to know a lot of ways to play the same type passage or chord. I haven't been messing with the steel very long, but the sound that made me really like the instrument wasn't a bunch of AB work, it was the way that "E" lever takes you from the I chord to the minor iii with such a nice easy motion. But I just happen to like songs with some minor chords in them. |
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Doug Seymour
From:
Jamestown NY USA (deceased)
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Posted 4 Oct 2008 7:53 pm
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| Joe, maybe he was still selling shoes at the time this happened and he couldn't afford to change steels? He never had as many steels in his life time as you & I? |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 5 Oct 2008 12:22 pm
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I think the assupmtion of more knee levers and complex copedant enhances one ability, has always been over looked; There are those that can do more with A/B pedals, than we will ever be able to do with 8 knees and 10 pedals. I have been simplifying my copedant, and i have streamlined it right down to bare bones, and i am much more in control of the instrument now! Most of PF #1 hits on the radio always seem to have a straight forward copedant, he's the master of simple licks, that are hard to play. Personally , ill bet you can cover almost 90% of the radio stuff with a SINGLE 10 3+2 if you had too. You cant have everybody's copedant on hand, so work around it. Just my opinion, which is generally wrong.  |
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