Fender Deluxe 6 Intonation Problem

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 15 Sep 2008 5:54 pm

Don't know if any of you guys are old enough, but the Rube Goldberg stuff reminded me of a comic strip from the late 30s or early 40s called Smokey Stover. A fireman I think, who had new contraptions, complete with notes of how they worked, each week in the cartoon section of the Sunday paper.

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 15 Sep 2008 9:49 pm

Look what I found

http://www.smokey-stover.com/

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 18 Sep 2008 9:34 am

I another post Steinar said

Steinar Gregertsen wrote:Can someone please enlighten me about what's wrong with using an adjustable bridge, as long as it's solid and well made? I know there's no point in having one, but when you look at this bridge...

....it's set up with the individual saddles in one straight line and a flat radius. I don't see the problem (except, perhaps, that you can't manipulate the spacing?).

I don't see any disadvantages regarding tone and sustain compared to a thin L-shaped piece of metal, quite the contrary..
My Lap King Rodeo came with a Rickenbacker bridge, individual saddles that could be adjusted (but were in a straight line), flat radius,- and it sings.

Bruce Bindeman · Post by **Bruce Bindeman** » 18 Sep 2008 5:12 pm

I did notice this problem on a Fender Deluxe Six built in the '70's.

What little additional compensation I could achieve was stopped by the nut of blender pot. I found another nut and, after marking where it faced the bridge after tightening, ground down that face with a Dremel tool.

If I didn't do this, the bridge would rise up off the face plate, as you described, when I tightened the intonation screws.

This mod got me closer to having the correct distance between nut and bridge.

Bruce

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 19 Sep 2008 7:23 am

Frank

Is it posable ? that the bridge pan has been removed & reinstalled ?

this is a long shot - But
it may have been moved to acquire new material to mount it .

Hick

Frank Welsh · Post by **Frank Welsh** » 20 Sep 2008 4:25 am

Bruce Bindeman wrote:I did notice this problem on a Fender Deluxe Six built in the '70's.

What little additional compensation I could achieve was stopped by the nut of blender pot. I found another nut and, after marking where it faced the bridge after tightening, ground down that face with a Dremel tool.

If I didn't do this, the bridge would rise up off the face plate, as you described, when I tightened the intonation screws.

This mod got me closer to having the correct distance between nut and bridge.

Bruce

Thanks for the suggestions.

There is no evidence that the bridge plate has been moved. I think that the entire plate may have been slightly out of position when it was hit with the die that punches the humps and the tabs that hold the bridge adjustment screws. Not being a machinist, I am guessing as to how this could happen at the factory.

I've compromised by removing the pickup blender knob and lockscrew and moving the bridge a good 1/4 inch back to where it almost touches the blender post. To my relief (no pun intended), the downward pressure of the strings forced the bridge into contact with the top of the bridge plate, resulting in good sustain.

My Peterson tuner now shows correct intonation at the 12th fret when compared with the harmonic and even bar slants sound better. Here is the "finished product.

Dan Sawyer · Post by **Dan Sawyer** » 20 Sep 2008 2:33 pm

Frank Welsh wrote:I measured the Deluxe 6 as Basil recommended, from center of the nut to center of bridge …

This is not quite correct. You want to measure from where the strings leave the nut. There would be no reason to measure from the center since every manufacturer makes a different size nut and the size has no correlation to string length scale. The strings do not vibrate until they leave the nut.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 20 Sep 2008 2:40 pm

Being as the bridge and nut are ROUND bar, it IS valid..
Dan, are you familiar with this make of guitar ? we are discussing a Fender lap steel ..

Frank Welsh · Post by **Frank Welsh** » 20 Sep 2008 3:34 pm

Dan Sawyer wrote:
Frank Welsh wrote:I measured the Deluxe 6 as Basil recommended, from center of the nut to center of bridge …
This is not quite correct. You want to measure from where the strings leave the nut. There would be no reason to measure from the center since every manufacturer makes a different size nut and the size has no correlation to string length scale. The strings do not vibrate until they leave the nut.

Here is a shot of the bridge now moved back with the ruler placed directly over the middle of the nut. If the nut was an "L" shaped piece of metal or a thick bone or plastic upright like on a Spanish guitar, I would have measured from the point where the string left the nut.

Notice that, in order to have correct intonation, the bridge is set slightly longer than the given scale of 22 and 1/2 inches. This compensates for the strings' lack of significant vibration near any anchoring point, i.e. bridge and, for open strings, also the nut. Strings vibrate in a complex loop and their movement is necessarily limited near the anchor points.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 20 Sep 2008 4:54 pm

how does it sound now?

Bruce Bindeman · Post by **Bruce Bindeman** » 20 Sep 2008 4:57 pm

Bravo, Frank!

Looks good and I'm glad it sounds better.

Bruce

Mark Vinbury · Post by **Mark Vinbury** » 20 Sep 2008 8:28 pm

Uh----Maybe the wood shrunk.

Frank Welsh · Post by **Frank Welsh** » 21 Sep 2008 4:10 am

Thanks for all the comments.

The steel sounds much better in terms of intonation and is especially noticeable on slants. For example, the three string forward slant on C6th on the first three strings now sounds much better. It had always sounded "sour" no matter how I tried to adjust the slant before I moved the bridge. Other slants are now easier to play in tune.

Now, maybe the Chinese will make us some high quality Stringmasters for a few hundred dollars!

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 21 Sep 2008 5:30 am

Will lead paint be extra?.......

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 21 Sep 2008 5:46 am

Frank Welsh wrote:Thanks for all the comments.

Now, maybe the Chinese will make us some high quality Stringmasters for a few hundred dollars!

The Japanese already are !!
http://www.apollonmusic.com/c_menu/nats ... guitar.htm